Lets talk abortion

LouisCypherLouisCypher Regular
edited May 2011 in Spurious Generalities
Lets talk abortion. While I realize this is a hot-button issue that can easily polarize even the strongest of communities, I think its an important topic that we ignore at societies peril.

As a Christian, I feel abortion is an abomination. Life is sacred and while our government might not explicitly encourage it, they don't explicitly condemn the practice either. Its become, in the minds of our leftist liberal government, a moral grey area, where the real issue, killing babies is trumped by the womans "right" to choose.

What of the babies right to choose? What of the fathers right to choose? These are questions that need to be answered and quickly before we slide even further into a quagmire of degenerate behavior and moral cowardice.

While I don't condone abortion in many cases, such as rape or incest, I do think the case could be made that people of means, wealth and higher stations in society should be granted "abortion allowances". These are the people that run the country, run the industry and create the jobs that keep this country afloat. In these cases how can we justify forcing the added responsibility of an unplanned pregnancy upon them when they already shoulder much of the burden of keeping society afloat? Captains of industry and entrepreneurs can't afford to spend their extra time waking up in the middle of the night to tell their wives or maids to feed a crying child. CEOs of major corporations have enough on their plates appeasing stockholders without the added burden of paying child support.

I'd very much like to hear from others your opinions on abortion. Would anyone care to share stories from their own lives on the subject? Do you perhaps know anybody IRL or on the forums with stories to share? Lets try to keep the conversation civil.

Comments

  • edited March 2011
    What of the fathers right to choose?

    If I was the one who had to shit a melon out of me after having my body slowly wrecked over nine months and someone told me 'what about my choice?' I'd break my foot off in their ass.
  • KraneKrane Regular
    edited March 2011
    As a Christian, I feel abortion is an abomination. Life is sacred and while our government might not explicitly encourage it, they don't explicitly condemn the practice either. Its become, in the minds of our leftist liberal government, a moral grey area, where the real issue, killing babies is trumped by the womans "right" to choose.

    ...

    While I don't condone abortion in many cases, such as rape or incest, I do think the case could be made that people of means, wealth and higher stations in society should be granted "abortion allowances". These are the people that run the country, run the industry and create the jobs that keep this country afloat. In these cases how can we justify forcing the added responsibility of an unplanned pregnancy upon them when they already shoulder much of the burden of keeping society afloat? Captains of industry and entrepreneurs can't afford to spend their extra time waking up in the middle of the night to tell their wives or maids to feed a crying child. CEOs of major corporations have enough on their plates appeasing stockholders without the added burden of paying child support.

    I'd very much like to hear from others your opinions on abortion. Would anyone care to share stories from their own lives on the subject? Do you perhaps know anybody IRL or on the forums with stories to share? Lets try to keep the conversation civil.

    What kind of Christian wants the rich to get richer because they don't have a family to look after and the poor to only get poorer because they have to keep an unwanted baby, which would probably lead to post-natal depression.

    This is why I disagree with gay Christian vicars and the like, if the religion doesn't suit you then don't practise it, don't bend the religion around your own ego.
  • LouisCypherLouisCypher Regular
    edited March 2011
    Krane wrote: »
    What kind of Christian wants the rich to get richer because they don't have a family to look after and the poor to only get poorer because they have to keep an unwanted baby, which would probably lead to post-natal depression.

    This is why I disagree with gay Christian vicars and the like, if the religion doesn't suit you then don't practise it, don't bend the religion around your own ego.

    When the rich get richer all of society benefits. Its called the trickle down effect. Try to verse yourself in some basic economic theory before making a fool of yourself in threads like this.

    Post natal depression? The greatest gift in the world is is a child to love. The poor can only benefit from such a gift. They may not have much money or physical possesions but there will be no shortage of love and work to keep them busy raising children. When we as a society get back to Christianity and old fashioned American values like responsibility and hard work you will see a drastic decline in the mental disorders you speak of. Mental disorders are a byproduct of immorality and godlessness.
  • edited March 2011
    Hm...well you didn't mention the "when life begins" argument that's usually used, but my take on that one is that life began with the very first life ages ago -- sperm and eggs are just as much alive as you, it just merges off into a new person.

    But other things are alive with human genes that we kill, like cancer cells. And fetuses/embryos/whatever dont have and never have had a brain or personality or consciousness early on in the process.

    I'd say the only viable non-religious argument against it is the fact that, when not interfered with, it will eventually be a conscious person -- basically potentiality. But there's no evidence to support even the intrinsic value of life, and potentiality is not actuality, so I can't see any non-religious reasons to ban it, and in the USA at least we're not supposed to have religious laws.

    That all said, if a woman doesn't want to get pregnant and isn't being raped then she can easily avoid it in a number of ways, so even though I think it should remain legal and don't have moral issues with it, I still think it's stupid to get to the point where it's the only option.
  • KraneKrane Regular
    edited March 2011
    When the rich get richer all of society benefits. Its called the trickle down effect. Try to verse yourself in some basic economic theory before making a fool of yourself in threads like this.

    Post natal depression? The greatest gift in the world is is a child to love. The poor can only benefit from such a gift. They may not have much money or physical possesions but there will be no shortage of love and work to keep them busy raising children. When we as a society get back to Christianity and old fashioned American values like responsibility and hard work you will see a drastic decline in the mental disorders you speak of. Mental disorders are a byproduct of immorality and godlessness.

    The problem with the "Trickle Down" theory, is that you assume the people on top won't simply do what they've always done, and save the money they acquire, while spending as little as possible. That's how the rich stay rich. If you want to benefit the poor, you cannot simply give rich people money and lower taxes, and assume they'll "do the right thing". You end up putting too much faith in an individual's ability to change their entire system of handling money. It just doesn't work that way.

    Why am I even replying to someone who believes mental illness is caused by godlessness, but im not even going to bother with that point lol.

    Love is just chemicals in the brain, there is no 'higher power' behind it, if you need to put faith in something you have never seen then your life really must be empty, how can someone this day and age beleive in a monotheistic religion that a bunch of guys probably wrote up while high on mushrooms (which was accepted by the ancient Jews) at a time when everyone was superstitious.

    A child is not the greatest gift to everyone, to some it's wanted, others it's an unplanned pregnancy and they want rid of it, and some people in the world will sell it to childless couples or to slavery.
  • BigHarryDickBigHarryDick Cock Bite
    edited March 2011
    Whaaaa. no pics?

    aborted_9_week_fetus.jpg

    abortion.jpg

    abortion05.jpg

    images11.jpg
  • LouisCypherLouisCypher Regular
    edited March 2011
    Krane wrote: »
    The problem with the "Trickle Down" theory, is that you assume the people on top won't simply do what they've always done, and save the money they acquire, while spending as little as possible. That's how the rich stay rich. If you want to benefit the poor, you cannot simply give rich people money and lower taxes, and assume they'll "do the right thing". You end up putting too much faith in an individual's ability to change their entire system of handling money. It just doesn't work that way..

    You know nothing of the world and you hate your betters. Lets move on.
    Krane wrote: »
    Why am I even replying to someone who believes mental illness is caused by godlessness, but im not even going to bother with that point lol

    Being dismissive just makes you look foolish. Why don't you back up your claims?
    Krane wrote: »
    Love is just chemicals in the brain, there is no 'higher power' behind it, if you need to put faith in something you have never seen then your life really must be empty, how can someone this day and age beleive in a monotheistic religion that a bunch of guys probably wrote up while high on mushrooms (which was accepted by the ancient Jews) at a time when everyone was superstitious.

    Have you seen the chemicals in the brain? Mabye you shouldn't believe everything you read.Love is a blessing from god. Its an alien concept to someone like you, but whatever lets you sleep at night.

    Krane wrote: »
    A child is not the greatest gift to everyone, to some it's wanted, others it's an unplanned pregnancy and they want rid of it, and some people in the world will sell it to childless couples or to slavery.

    All preferable to being murdered. I suppose you think being scraped from your mothers womb with a coat hanger is preferable to being a foster child? Moses himself was born a slave. Had his mother aborted him he would never have led the jews from slavery.
  • OutbackOutback Acolyte
    edited April 2011

    Have you seen the chemicals in the brain? Mabye you shouldn't believe everything you read.Love is a blessing from god. Its an alien concept to someone like you, but whatever lets you sleep at night.

    Have you ever seen the wind, not the effects it has on things, but the actual wind?

    If you can't see that you have an embryo inside you what's wrong with getting the old uterus a nice clean out?
  • OsirisOsiris Acolyte
    edited April 2011
    Rich babies should not be aborted, they should be ripped out of their mothers womb and sent straight to the crucifix.

    Love is the puddle of piss your child wallows in.
  • RogueEagle91RogueEagle91 Regular
    edited April 2011
    I'm completely okay with abortion. Here's why.

    On the issue of life being sacred: I don't feel it is. While once, I will concede, it was a miracle of sorts for a child to survive childbirth, let alone reach reproductive age. That time is long gone. Know how many people are alive right now? Nearly seven billion.

    Whether you like it or not, you cannot fathom that number. It's just too big. Look into the night's sky. On a clear night during the right season, you can see up to 6000 stars. Most will look up and say it's an uncountable number. If you think the sky is full, think about the planet as a whole again. Seven billion people means every death and every birth just becomes another statistic. Nothing more.To continuously hold seven billion things precious at every moment of every day is simply ludicrous. Face it. A good portion of that number is pretty damn useless. A waste of resources.

    That being said, why continue to allow such wastes of resources to come into this world when they are clearly not wanted? Don't give me the predictable adoption response. If you truly read the above paragraph, you'll realize it holds no ground with me.

    Legalizing abortion has actually been beneficial in the United States. As seen with the rise of crime in the 1980's and the rapid decline in the early 1990's, this has been found to be a direct result of legal abortions. Unwanted children coming of age in the 80's were clearly found unwanted, eventually resorting to criminal behavior. Unwanted coming of age in the 90's (born post abortion legalization) were relatively fewer and further between because the mothers were allowed to have children at a time of their choosing.

    While I don't completely agree with the OP's stance on rich abortion options, I see where he is coming from. However, statistically speaking, the higher percentage of abortions come from low income families unable to support a(nother) child. These are the people who should be allowed the financial capacity to do so. A family cannot function without proper funds to do so, and an additional mouth to feed certainly does low income families no justice.

    If I think of anything else to add, I'll either do an edit or add another post later.
  • theGeneraltheGeneral Regular
    edited May 2011
    Abortion is just a distraction. Almost 15 trillion in debt, and the sheep seem to care more about these ridiculous non-issues like Obama's birth certificate.
  • edited May 2011
    I think that late term abortions are nasty, but I'm not ready to tell a woman that she has to give birth to a child.

    On the other hand, I think women everywhere should familiarize themselves with herbal Abortifacients so that they can deal with this sort of thing before the issues and implications of a viable fetus enter into it. If you think you may have been knocked up, do something about it early.
  • OsirisOsiris Acolyte
    edited May 2011
    theGeneral wrote: »
    Abortion is just a distraction. Almost 15 trillion in debt, and the sheep seem to care more about these ridiculous non-issues like Obama's birth certificate.

    Money is a distraction, and it doesn't really exist.
  • angryonionangryonion Just some guy
    edited May 2011
    Osiris wrote: »
    Money is a distraction, and it doesn't really exist.

    What??THE FUCK?
    You will realize how much money matters when you don't have any.
    Only a brain dead moron could come up with such a stupid statement.
    Money makes the world go round!
  • Sarahlov3lySarahlov3ly Regular
    edited May 2011
    freedom of choice. But.... I don't know if i could ever do it.
  • edited May 2011
    I'm rather divided on the subject; I'm firmly in the camp of pro-choicers simply because Roe v. Wade single-handedly ended the crime-boom in the states...

    Also because there's nothing worse to me than growing up in a house where one or both or one(if there's only one) parent resents their very existence; such people are more likely to do all sorts of things which might be regrettable to society as a whole; although I suppose it might help to bolster the Totse ranks with interesting members :p

    The reason why I have some consideration for the other side is simply that since Science makes it clearer and clearer that a fetus is, in fact alive, I can't really argue that it could be anything other than a human one... Although all mammals have very similar fetuses in the early stages.... So I don't know, I guess that part might be a wash.

    By the way, human lives are most certainly not in any way sacred; we're simply primates who are a mere half a chromosome away from chimpanzees and we possess a Pre-frontal Cortex which is too small, and an Adrenal Gland which is too large; we're just another animal that's way too up it's own ass with itself, basically.
  • LordbucketLordbucket Acolyte
    edited May 2011
    Fetus aint a person, your not a person unless your in my phone book.
  • CitoCito Semo-Regulars
    edited May 2011
    I've paid for an abortion before... so I don't really care either way
  • NegrophobeNegrophobe Regular
    edited May 2011
    Abortion amongst whites should be discouraged as much as possible (unless there's a chance of disabilities that will be present), abortions for niggers and wogs from South Asia should be encouraged; we owe these minorities the right to an abortion! Free Choice For Non-White Abortion! Minorities Have Abortion Rights!

    There should be more abortion clinics in the ghettos. We should help to raise money for free abortions. Abortion clinic syndicates that primarily operate in non-White areas and receive tax support, should be promoted.
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