ok, as some of you know, I'm going to be homeless soon. Almost definitely starting in october. Now, I'm not going to be the type of homeless person that hangs out around dumpsters/burger kings. I'm putting together a list of supplies (a mental list :P) that I need to buy in order to survive in the wilderness. I'm not sure how it's all going to go down, but I figure sleeping in a tent is more of my thing than sleeping on a curbside.
Now, I have yet to purchase a legit survival knife.
Is there anyone on here who is experienced in this field? (please log on armsmerchant :P)
I was thinking about buying this one. It's not too expensive, not very cheap either, stainless steel, straight blade, not too big either. I'm not sure if the tang is fullsized, but maybe one of you guys could answer that for me.http://sogknives.com/store/E37.html
I have limited funds, so don't recommend me a knife that costs like 1000$ or something absurd. I'm looking to spend about 100-200$ on a knife.
lol....all the have is pocket knives that aren't even free. I already have some pocket knives. I need a fixed blade knife, with a sheath. designed for cutting wood n shit. Not a godamn soap carving knife <
thanks anyway though :P
I was thinking about buying a few just for kicks since some of them are like 1$
but then I realized that you have to buy at least 300 at a time. fuck that
I would recomend a Becker BK11 made by KaBar, i have the older version made by Camillus and love it.
BK11 Becker Necker
3in something blade, whole knife is made from a single piece of 1095 carbon steel so will take lots of abuse without breaking.
Battoning thru wood is no problem at all, only the blade lenght limits how big piece of wood you can cut.
Wraping the handle with some 550 paracord makes it much more comfortable to use and gives a great grip on it.
Is light enough to be carried as a neck knife if needed.
If thats too small for you the rest of the Becker line from KaBar probably have something more your size.
Like the Becker BK2 Companion, for what i have heard its a great blade.
But i am not going to recomend something i have not used myself, better you find a review from someone that have used it.
Im guessing you could buy both of them and still come out cheaper than that SOG, but local prices can sometimes be very much changing.
There are alot of good knifes out there for reasonable prices.
Also check out reviews on youtube and/or different knifeforums, i think its always good to hear what other people think about a product before buying it.
Register on http://www.bladeforums.com/
Now the most important part: what do you want to do with this knife? Do you want to cut sticks? Self defense? Cut meat? Cut rope? I imagine you want a fixed blade, one that stays in a sheath, right?
If we don't know what you're going to do with the knife, it's really hard to recommend one. The type of steel you need, the shape, everything depends on what you're going to do with it and how you plan on treating it. If you plan on having it get wet all the time, you'll need a different steel than if you plan on using it for dry things.
My division as issued a nice Gerber piece that stood up to water, mud, filth, and getting assaulted with a rock when I needed more leverage. heh. I used to carry a fixed bladed knife but soon ditched it as I realized that it couldn't do a single that the multi-tool could. I guess it could attach as a bayonet, but we were phasing them out, didn't need it, and didn't need extra junk hanging off my webbing.
Especially in your case where weight/encumbrance will be everything, a multi-tool is where it's at. A good one can even be used to deconstruct random junk you find around to harvest parts and other useful bits.
Just make sure you get a good, reputable multi-tool and you're set.
Yes, I am aware that a fixed blade is too bulky to do some jobs, which is why I'm going to carry a multi tool as well. I still need a fixed blade though.
@LostInTheWoods: I was looking at those, and they look nice. Especially the becker necker, it's so light!!! But, I decided against those because they aren't stainless steel. I'm not sure if I'll have access to that coating stuff you have to put on carbon blades to make them rust resistant, so I settled on stainless.
I'm basically gonna use this knife as an all purpose knife, and it needs to withstand the elements, mostly water, since I will probably be living in a wooded area. I'll probably be traveling a lot too. not sure
Otherwise, i might look at a Cold Steel SRK
hmmmm, this srk looks prime
the demonstration video is pretty crazy too, not that I'll be needing to pierce car doors or stab people with it....
I think I've settled on this one....but I'll wait a few more days before buying it. Hopefully armsmerchant travels to his library and sees this thread. I'm interested to hear his opinion.
I can understand that, there are some good rust resistant steels out there so should be no problem to find something that works well for you.
Like fanglekai previously posted 440C or s30v should be perfect, low mantainance and very good toughness.
Also i second the multitool, a good lower end multitool (But still a good name brand) will probably be very usefull for you.
Even a basic swiss army knife gives alot of function in a very small size and would be the first knife i would buy if i was in your situation.
With a mid size knife for the harder jobs like splitting wood and any other tasks requiring a more solid tool.
One more thing to keep in mind is local knifelaws, make sure you find out beforehand what and how you can carry.
I know from personal experiance that the police usualy do not appreciate that anyone carries a knife, ever. I hope the situation where you are is better.
there are .... illegitimate survival knives ?
Yes, some companies advertise knives that are impractical. For instance, I would never buy a knife that does not have a full tang.
Would you trust a knife that looks like a piece of plastic and costs 12 bucks to save your life?
This one, for instance: http://www.amazon.com/Black-Ultimate-Survival-Knife-Compass/dp/B000AP4Y16/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t
1095 cv steel, 20 degree blade, 5.5'' blade length, made in the USA.
This one is a 9'' bowie: http://www.amazon.com/Ka-Bar-Becker-BK9-Combat-Bowie/dp/B001IPKL7I/ref=pd_sbs_sg_3
1095 cv steel, 9'' blade length, made in the USA
The handles on these don't look that great, though. The 1095 cv steel is a great steel, but you'll want to keep an oily rag around so you can maintain the blade and prevent rust. 1095 cv is a really nice steel, but it might not be what you need. I'll keep looking.
So instead of a decent multi-tool with a good blade on it, you want a fighting knife? I guess I fail to understand that.
A black coated knife isn't going to give you any advantage on fish or game, it just seems silly to pack multiple tools to serve one purpose. You'll end up doing as I did, and tossing the one you never used- as the one covered every base.
Just take it from someone who knows. The LEAST amount of gear/shit you can get away with carrying, the better.
Wich of those knives in this thread would you rate as "combat" knives?
Sure the USMC is called a fighting knife but will do utillity work just as good, same for the SRK.
The BK9 is also called a "combat" knife, dont know what for. It will probably work just as good as any machete for wood work. On the other hand 9 inch blade is really just too much to carry around.
As for the coating on the blade it helps with keeping the blade from rusting, a big plus for a "survival knife".
A knife built as a tool can be a weapon, a knife built as a weapon rarely makes a good tool.
But anyway i have to agree that a good multitool is of more use than a 9" bowie.
Also agree that carrying less stuff often is better.
Doug Ritter RSK MK3 4.5'' fixed blade in s30v with G10 handle, weighs 5.7 oz $165: http://www.dougritter.com/dr_rsk_mk3.htm
The knife description:
"Four and a half inches of premium grade CPM S30V stainless steel in a drop-point full-tang fixed blade of Doug's design. Ergonomic 3-D CNC machined composite G10 handles. Everything you need, nothing you don't™."
G10 is my favorite material for knife handles. It's layers of fiberglass compressed and baked in resin. It's extremely "grippy", durable, impervious to moisture and changes in temperature. It's probably the best material out there. I have a Kershaw Leek in s30v with a G10 handle. I love it.
Gerber LMFII 12c27 steel, fixed blade, partly serrated, $70: http://www.amazon.com/Gerber-22-01629-Black-Infantry-Knife/dp/B000E3QUB6/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t
A lot of people swear by 1095, A2, D2, SK5, or 01 steel. 52100 is another good steel choice. These are non-stainless steels. They're generally good for "hard use" jobs. 1095 is probably going to be your best bet out of the bunch if you're concerned about price.
If you want a high end stainless, look for a blade in s30v, BG-42, or ZDP-189. You need a knife with a blade steel that has really high wear resistance (so you can sharpen it less often). The ones I listed here are great for that.
Again, it's really important to know what you think you're going to do with the knife. Chopping branches vs. cutting things. Out of all the knives I've listed, I'd either go for the Kabar B2 in 1095 or the Doug Ritter custom fixed blade in s30v. The Doug Ritter RSK MK3 costs $165, but having it in s30v with a G10 handle along with the blade shape, very light weight and everything, it looks like the best knife of the bunch. s30v is an awesome steel, and it's much less likely to rust than 1095. Please make sure to buy some gun oil and bring a rag so you can wipe the knife down after drying it off after use. If you're going to be in a humid or wet environment, you need to maintain any knife, no matter the steel.
I have to agree about not carrying around a 9'' knife. Get a nice multitool. Buck used to make a Buck Tool multi-tool. I dunno if they still do. I have one and love it.
Lastly, this is important to mention:
"Please allow me a short rant: Just because a knife has "survival" in its description or name, doesn't mean it can withstand any absurd abuse some idiot comes up with. These are ridiculous and infantile expectations bred by overhyped marketing, Hollywood and ignorance. Rambo is not reality. You always need to respect the limitations of your tools. With rare exceptions, knives are not meant to serve as prybars or hammers. They are primarily cutting tools and lighterweight knives are primarily slicing tools. A lightweight knife will never be a replacement for a crowbar, axe or hatchet, though it may be quite capable of keeping you alive in virutally any situation. This is not to indict larger and heavier knives; they have their place and many prefer a larger knife. If you want to pry or chop with a knife, you defintiely want a larger, heavier and thicker blade. Any knife can be broken or damaged, even those "sharpened prybars." The Doug Ritter RSK Mk3™ is a knife that will take care of you, if you take reasonable care of it and use it responsibly."
how's that illegitimate ?
Do you know anything about steel? That knife is a piece of shit. It's "illegitimate" because it's NOT a survival knife. It will not serve its purpose, which is to help you "survive" in the wilderness by performing various cutting tasks. It will not stand up to abuse. It will not take a razor sharp edge and hold it for a long period of time. It'll probably break, rust or fail to perform in any number of ways, meaning it is illegitimate or not suited to outdoor/survival use of any kind.
Apparently Doug Ritter also runs www.equipped.org, which is a site and forum for survival items.
Dude .... niggers in Africa had been known to commit genocides, and not just surviving their jungle with cheap, $1 a piece made in China machete stamped from recycled iron bars and they're doing just fine.
And sometimes even with stick and stones if they have to when machete are out of their price range and still tehy are surviving and genociding just fine.
It's not the tool that matters, it's your survival skill. Or genocidal skill.
someone ban this kid from totse
@fanglekai: thanks for all the links and suggestions. I'll definitely look them over before deciding on a knife
Despite you being a complete and total moron, I'm going to respond to your post.
You don't even know what machetes are for do you? They're for hacking, not slicing. They're generally not even that sharp. They're not a survival knife. They're for hacking brush. Machetes are typically stamped steel where the handle might be leather or something wrapped around the metal itself to form a place to grip. The piece of shit I linked to does not have a full tang. The blade ends where the handle begins. That means it's a piece of shit. If it were a piece of solid metal it would be 100x better.
Do you think Africans would prefer to use shitty machetes or nice ones? Obviously nice ones. They don't get to use nice ones, though. People with money can buy nice gear, though. The OP said he has $200 to spend. His price range is actually quite accurate. Anything over $200 is generally that expensive because it's customized or very rare. Since the OP has the money to buy quality, he should. Why? Those genocidal people who use $1 machetes don't live in the wilderness. They live in cities or villages. They don't rely on the machete for survival. They are not dressing game or filleting fish with their machetes. Maybe they use them to chop wood. That's probably the extent of their survival use.
There's a saying: "Your knife is your life." A knife is probably the most important piece of gear of you can have in a wilderness situation. With a knife you can do tons of shit. Ever seen "The Edge" with Anthony Hopkins? Obviously it's a movie, but it shows 2 men in a wilderness situation, and they're able to make shelter, build traps to catch food, and do all kinds of stuff because they have a knife. Without a knife you cannot clean fish or game. You cannot sharpen sticks, cut rope (with fire you could do this, but it'd be harder and waste rope), slice food or do any number of things.
Spending a little more money to buy a quality knife is extremely important if you have to rely on it. If you're going out to chop people up with a machete and then going back home at the end of the day, it doesn't fucking matter if your machete cost $1 or $750. If you're going to be out in the middle of nowhere and want to survive, you need a good knife that you can rely on that will not rust easily or break. If you'd ever gone camping for an extended period of time you'd know this already, but of course you want to be an internet tough guy. Hilarious how you complained about people making unintelligent posts in one of Namaste's threads, when you're the only one in this thread who hasn't been even remotely helpful. So, fuck off, troll.
No problem. Knives and blade steel are one of my interests. Most people know dick about any of this, and they don't realize how important it is to pick the right knife for the right situation.
Aside from the steel, keep in mind that the blade shape is very important. I think you linked to an SRK earlier http://amzn.to/aRm1K0. The shape of an SRK is designed for fighting and not really as well-suited as a knife with a bigger belly (like Ka-bar http://amzn.to/bMjFZF or the Doug Ritter RSK MK3 http://bit.ly/aEC20P) for most tasks. Compare the SRK to these: http://bit.ly/cjSeqV. Typically knives like the SRK are for piercing rather than slicing because they're narrow. Despite having a drop point shape, they have no "belly", which is the part of the knife you use for most tasks.
There are tons of things to factor in: blade geometry, steel, handle composition (G10, wood, animal horn or bone, steel or aluminum, micarta, polycarbonate, random plastic, etc.) and molding (does it have jimping - ridges for better grip - or is it smooth, does it have fixed places for your fingers), and blade design (shape, essentially. There are tons of shapes: drop point, clip point, spear point, tanto, skinning, spey, hawkbill and more).
All of this shit is important to think about, even though it gets complicated. If you want a general purpose knife, you're most likely going to want a drop point. Most of the ones I linked to were drop point because I had that in mind.
And most definitely:
thanks a bunch man, you've been more than helpfull
Glad to have helped.
lower price steels, of still decent quality if done correctly:
440C (careful, NOT 440A or 440B. if it says 440, then its probably A or
420HC (NOT regular 420)
be careful though, cold steel has a lot of demonstration videos, many of them are good demonstration, but they never demonstrate some of the more important things (edge retention, coating durability etc) unless is a blade with super premium steel (San Mai III for example)
Combat knives and survival knives have a few of their characteristics overlapping. Length and tip strength, for example. As for the Kabar USMC "fighting knife", i think thats really just in the name. Its more of a survival knife that is capable of processing wood (splitting logs, chopping branches, etc). Machetes have their purposes, but they can be a bit thin at times, as a thick machete is too heavy to wield effectively
G10 is good, though i think it is less important on fixed blades. Make no mistake, its my favorite handle material for folding knives, but for a survival knife, i prefer a softer handle to deal with impact forces on the hand when doing stuff like chopping. I like kraton
You're also right not to overlook 440C. Heat treatment is of the utmost importance. A very well heat treated 440C would probably be superior in several aspects to some of the so-called "premium" steels. Of course it's always a compromise, no matter what steel you pick. Sadly no one steel is "the best."
AUS8A is also not too bad. It's basically 440B. AUS10A is comparable to 440C.
I suggested s30v because I think the main things to look for are really good edge retention and rust resistance. I'm hesitant to recommend something like 1095 if only because it requires more maintenance than a stainless. AUS8A has better rust resistance than 440C or AUS10A because of the lower carbon content, so it would be another good choice for a blade steel, and would cost a lot less than an s30v blade.
Also, this and this.
Maybe this, this and this too. And google the assorted topics for more.
A very good idea, but i would not carry a mora as my primary knife.
When out in the bush i carry one as a backup, and to do simpler taskt like wood carving and food preparation. (i would also recomend using a dedicated knife for food preparation, any cheap one will probably work ok)
Most of them are not full tang so i would also recomend not using it for heavy wood splitting or prying.
Hard to beat the price/capability of a mora knife, i do not know what the prices are in the rest of the world but here in sweden they are cheap as hell and sold everywhere.
I'll definitely look into Mora knives as a secondary food preparation knife.
I read the "recycler" article, good read. And that homeless forum is interesting. Especially the 10/10/10 world homeless day add at the top. Kind of freaky, cause that's almost the exact date when I'm going to start living homelessly.
I haven't looked at the other links but I will check them out when I get off work.
yeah I've only seen carbon steel mora knives in my search so far :[
in retrospect .... that sounds reasonable. I'm sorry ... i ... i'll now go suck a cock.
But then a survival knife is only a survival if your going to use/used it for survival purpose .... else it's just a toy.
like how a samurai sword is only a samurai sword *IF* it was used/intend to be used by samurais. Else ... they're just katanas.
I've pm'd megalodon about some more stuff since meth decided to shit all over the thread.
 did you meant "on topic post" or "off topic post" ???
 I am sorry, please forgive me for being off topic .... now that I've respected your believe, I hope you'll with mine .... now this is what I believe :
My posts are all knives and survival related ... thus ... they're *ON TOPIC*. SO WHY DONT YOU JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP AND JAM YOUR OPINION AND RETARDED BELIEFS UP YOUR ASS AND UP YOUR SPINAL CORD AND SHOVE IT UP TILL IT REACH YOUR BRAIN WHERE THYE ORIGINATED.
Unless of cos you can prove, with concrete evidences, that I had indeed off-topicised, that's just your beliefs.
You had a good stint of 3-4 posts that were nothing but raging. I left what was relevant. You and fanglekai went back and fourth for a few posts just exchanging insults, none of which was on topic. As I said, I left what was relevant, what was riddled with non-sense and slander was removed.
And you being off topic is not a belief of mine, it is a fact. It detracted severely from the thread, and had no point of being here. Sifting through your whine fest to find a few on topic posts ensures that no one will reply to the thread. If you want to start a bitch fest between yourself and someone else, do so else where. In this forum, please, stay on topic.
Go fuck yourself.
To be fair, I was trying to correct his ridiculous assertions, albeit not in a very constructive way. I didn't want people to think that a $2 knife would be sufficient for survival. I deleted my posts that I felt were off topic, because some of them, despite my good intentions, didn't belong here. In any case, I'm done posting in the thread since I've given megalodon my last pieces of advice via pm.
You should get a FM27 US survival manual.
Personally I carry the Glock Field Knife (G78) whenever I go to "the great outdoors" and I have been really happy with it. It is in no way as nice as some of the other ones mentioned here but it is cheap(er), very robust and can take alot of abuse.
Only one poster has mentioned sharpening; I always carry a Gerber Diamond Pocket Sharpner. It is an inexpensive (and small) sharpner that always gives the same angle to your edge, and though it can´t get the blade as sharp as I can with a fine wetstone, it saves a lot of time and work and does a good job in the field.
That knife looks like it's designed to function as a combat knife. Something that I really don't need. Especially if I get searched for some reason, and I'm carrying a concealed combat knife on me. It's easier to be like "hey, I use this knife to cut wood exclusively" if it's not a combat knife :P
as for a sharpener, fanglekai suggested this one to me http://www.amazon.com/Smiths-CCD4-Field-Sharpening-System/dp/B000N35D2E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1282251945&sr=8-1
It's not very expensive and it has some cool features and seems pretty lightweight for its size.
I'd rather spend 100 dollars than 25 dollars on a knife. It doesn't even mention the steel type of the glock knife on that site. Unless I missed it....
I think the only thing i ever seen the steel described as is "Spring steel hardened to 54HRc" (was some time ago, i may not remember it 100% right)
Meaning it could be any one of a number of high carbon steels, probably something like 5160. It makes for a very tough blade, but not one that will hold an edge very good.
That blade really is not very well constructed to be a survival knife, the profile of the blade is basicly the same as the US M3 fighting knife.
Its more of a bayonet then a knife really, sure it can be used as a survival knife but its built for stabing people and maybe prying open ammoboxes and stuff like that.
I also agree that it looks too much like a weapon that i would not want to have it on me if searched by police. Not that it would make a differance here in sweden, cops seem to confiscate anything from screwdrivers to razorblades lately.
As to the shape of the blade a "survival knife" should indeed be a military style knife imo. They are designed with very strong tips (good for odd jobs) and should be good for stabbing as it could very likely become the tip of an improvised spear in a survival situation. Also it is supposedly "well balanced for throwing" - a bad thing in a survival situation?!?
Along with the already established essential multi-tool I wouldn´t choose another even if I wanted to spend the extra cash.
I agree that for the price its a very good knife, if i ever needed a knife to hang on my LBE in a SHTF situation i would take the glock over a USMC kabar easily.
In a "combat survival" situation it have every feature i would be looking for:
Strong tip, for stabbing and prying
Good secure sheath
Tough piece of steel, i dont know if its full tang or not but i have watched the destruction test on youtube and it can take one hell of a beating.
Also it seems i was wrong about the steel, its 1095 not 5160.
1095 is my favorite steel by far so no problems there either. If only the hardening would have been a little better.