Look, we all know that some trolls do suck, and they cause problems. But this is totse. Talk of banning is just bullshit here and I feel like with how much it's being discussed, it could possibly happen and nobody wants that. It would ruin the entire vibe that makes this forum what it is.
I wanted to generate discussion now rather than later. I didn't want it to be glossed over, so I presented the topic in a way that would get people to respond. It's something that we need to talk about. How we're going to deal with spammers and people who abuse features is a really, really important topic. By getting people to make decisions, we can prevent this place from turning into cocklet.
What if we don't discuss it? The site has grown a lot recently. We have well over 2000 members now. We're going to keep growing. What are we going to do when we have 100 users spamming shit threads and abusing the report a post feature? Ignoring the problems does not make them go away.
Personally I don't like how people abuse the report a post feature. I think there should be a 12 hour ban that mods can use or simply take away their ability to report posts. It's obvious when someone abuses the report a post feature. It makes a new thread in Infractions that everyone can see. It's transparent. We shouldn't have to warn for it. You abuse the feature, you get temporarily banned. You keep abusing it, you get banned for longer. If temporarily banning users who abuse this feature isn't an option, then take away their ability to use the feature. Problem solved. Two solutions to one problem. What are we going to do?
As for failtrolls and removing their posts, I wanted to see how people would react. On totse the mods locked or removed threads all the fucking time. The kind of "answer me slave" threads Big Bear made were the kind that got locked on sight. They're garbage. Does the community want no moderation? Should those kinds of threads remain open? Should blatant garbage posts be unapproved? What happens if we let spammers derail threads?
What I wanted to get at and really what constituted my main motivation for making the thread was figuring out what exactly are the mods here supposed to do? How should we moderate? As it is, the mods have done pretty much nothing. We ban spam bots. Some of us move or lock a few threads. That's it. There has been very little abuse on the part of users, and most of it has been committed by the same few members. I wanted to see how the community thought the mods should moderate this site.
Talking about banning people is just that. It's talk. There's no need to spaz out over it. We HAVE to discuss these issues at some point or the mods will not know what they're supposed to do. There has been 0 "mod training" going on. It has to start somewhere, and we might as well decide as a community what we're going to do about these issues. If the answer is people get to post anything they want and spam, then that's what we'll do. We need to decide it first if that's how the site is going to function.
*Goes to make a thread*
Nice post, but the above bits do come across as crisis of confidence.
Advice from the Doc
Do what you are doing - no ill has been commited so far
Try new things - if they dont work, stop, no need for an enquiry
Tune your instinct.
Look to Lao-tzu for a bit of advice
My bad, you should have notified me about this earlier .
There you go: http://www.totse.info/bbs/showthread.php?t=9328
if i recal, that was due 2 multipel acounts:o:o:o:o:o
I know you had a good reason for using the term "fail trolls" that you have already explained, but that was probably partially responsible for this deabate
As some users have already pointed out, fail trolling is not easy to define, and its separation from trolling is based on opinion. Articulate People like DaGuru may not even have been fail trolls but were banned by acidmelt because he said their long posts were page stretching, and freely used the "thou shall not cause grief to thy administrator" rule. The bans were probably more about the content the posts contained. Similarly, users have been banned on zoklet for insulting wires or making jokes about her. Actions by people in power based on their personal opinion have probably led people who believe in free speech to defend trolls almost to the point of condoning spam.
A better thing to consider should be if we should ban spammers. The majority of users would probably agree that we should, but then we must define spam well enough that abuse is not permitted.
I believe that the idea of mod training is useless because it is only needed when definitions and rules are not clear, and that was the problem with zoklet and with us. If we could have a solid clear definition of what is spam and what is content, then no moderator would have any doubt about when to use their powers.
Fatty. Someone needs to ban that shit brick from the internet entirely.
it was my frinds acount wen i told them about zoklet but they didnt belive me
i believe you brandon :o. their loss is our gain
Holy shit dude. I like you but are you making your grammar and spelling like that on purpose? No offense man but I bet that shit is kinda hard to read by most posters.
Agreed 100%. He purposely trys to derail people's threads and totally abuses the "report a post" feature. I know we as moderators are suppose to find other ways to deal with this but he keeps doing it time and time again.
Once again STFU Spectral you abused power like nobody else and were one of the worst mods to have ever been on zoklet . You have no room to talk. You contribute nothing to the site and instead bitch and moan all the time.
I have no problem with FATTY. Almost all his posts are on topic and he's a pretty lulzy troll. Banning FATTY would just hurt totse.
Every time I see him in bltc he is purposely derailing a thread and taking away content from a legit thread because people have to stop their conversation to address his continued off topic insults and slander. I mean this is totse so the slander is accepted but for a thread to totally go off topic just messes up legit, good threads therefore taking away content from the forum. I'm not saying ban him really I'm just voicing my opinion really I guess.
And I'm not saying this just because of the flame war him and I had in SG the other night. I don't even let that bother me once I am in another thread. You can see an example of that when Jamie Madrox posted a thread in bltc after him and I also had it out in that same SG thread.
He posted a thread in Bltc that same night and I went on like nothing happened by commenting on his thread and asking questions trying to promote intelligent conversation about his topic.
This thread happened about 15 minutes after we were done insulting each other in that SG thread.
Hey... abusers are people, too.
O_rly? What's with all the interesting threads and posts I've contributed here then, hmmm? Stop talking out of your ass, kid, and you'll do better for your credibility... what's left of it, that is. Perhaps I'd be better off contributing over on Metaphysicist's site instead, and we can leave you to figure things out on your own.
Yes, and pigs also fly. Any more "good ones" for us, Sanchez? :facepalm:
You have made a few useful posts but most of them are just bitching and talking about to run the site. You speak of abuse of power yet you abused power all the time. You are a faggot and I don't give a fuck if your butthurt causes you to post on Metas site. Also most of your info you post is bullshit such as the gasoline in a lightbulb which you got from the anarchist cookbook.
ArmsMerchant was another faggot that disgraced the name of totse. ArmsMerchant is even worse then you are. I've been warned and infracted so many time just for disagreeing with that idiot.
You never did your job. You just pressed the ban button whenever you got butthurt about something. Very rarely did you ever hand out a ban that was necessary. And now you speak of banning "temple traitors" people from zoklet who abused power? What the fuck is a "temple traitor'? It's a goddamn internet forum get over yourself.
You've been up against the best on an online forum? Super cool story bro. I sure as hell fear you now. I was stupid to fuck with a guy who went up against the best usernames over a block of text. Your undeserved feelings of self importance are laughable. It's actually funny that the high point of your life was a BBS that died in the 90's and the fact that you so desperately cling on to it is pathetic.
I don't think you have enough dedication to be a moderator anywhere on the Temple of the Screaming Electron, Sanchez. You have zero respect for its heritage, and your very presence on the moderator team is an insult to its memory. I say knock you down to regular to give you some time to appreciate all that Totse stands for - something of which you apparently have no idea about.
I have over 6000 posts on here and stuck with this place even when everyone else including yourself left to go back to zoklet and I'm not dedicated? I support and know the totse values but I realize that the fucking bbs from the 90's is dead and that totse has evolved.
Are you also suggesting that because I'm a mod I shouldn't have my right to free speech? Is the 90's bbs some untouchable shrine in your mind? Maybe it's because it's all you have. Its the only thing you did with your short pathetic life. How does it feel knowing an old dial up internet site is your only "legacy"?
the interwebz is a srs business gias ok
I came here to be with 'templars'. It is an unwritten code - rules not written, but fluid and dynamic - where every situation is treated on its own merits. A form of communication where rules lawyers cannot derp about precedent.
The way things work and how they should work are how a supreme court should work. After all, a trial by jury, instead of being a security to persons accused is nothiong more than a dillusion, a mockery and a snare to those that think they can bypass a trap.
Maybe they can, for a while bypass it, but history will judge them guilty.
If you wish to open a window into mens souls, that window must be open all of the time, the blinds must forever be drawn and you should never take your eye from it.
However, if your eye spends such times on one mans soul, it cannot look upon anothers and so you cannot compare one to another.
Unless you can enter the mind of that man, you can never know his own justifications.
That is unless you proclaim yourself to be omnipresent.
Do I cling to a dead site created by a fed? No I do not. You have also failed to answer how you have any room to talk on here when you have contributed jack shit? Jeff Hunter can suck my balls and so can you. This site is about free speech and information and I support that but stop living in the past Spectral. Wait I should probably be demodded for this since Jeff Hunter is a God who could do no wrong right? This sites about free speech and information not telling mods to suck jeff hunters dick or be unworthy of modding the place.
I say leave him as he is - in this community, a badge means nothing, but it does put him in a better postion to learn. It has allready been proved that anyone with such a badge is not above anything.
Precedent is nothing at the moment, we need to move on and grow - let him grow as much as the community.
Anyone worthy of becoming part of this place will recognise people for what they are anyway.
We have to cling to the past because it is the only thing the guides us to the future and reminds us who we are.
Why did we even form totse.info?
To get away from zoklet, right?
Why did we want to leave? For freedom of speech, right?
But why leave zoklet, after all it is just like the majority of the internet?
It is when we think about what we had in the past, that we realize that what zoklet did, violates the beliefs that we share with those who created that 90s bbs.
We are inspired by the past but this place is more about free speech than the original totse ever was. They banned people left and right there but nobody here including myself wants that right? That means totse was a flawed site. The idea that I shouldn't be modded because I insulted Jeff Hunter is stupid as fuck. Totse was just as bad as zoklet as far as butthurt power hungry mods banning everyone but nobody seems to remember that.
I support TOTSE.INFO and it's mission not some dead forum created by a dude 20 years ago. And since this site is about free speech I'll say it again. FUCK Jeff Hunter and Fuck the original totse and all it's powerhungry moderators and kidiots. If a mod or anyone else can't say that on here than I guess this place isn't about free speech is it?
If you were to mention grand ideals and principles on zoklet, they would just say, "lol it's just an internet forum guys", and would not take you seriously.
Of course the original totse was corrupt, but I would not put the entire blame on Jeff Hunter, the same way I would not blame Zok for all of zoklet. But the principles that totse was founded were great, almost holy to some. The site itself will have problems, so reject the site and accept its principles. Totse's corruption was a bit more unofficial and the magic made people stay, zoklet actually has rules against freedom of speech (yes, I know that they are minor but still exist).
Your moderating is better than the majority of zoklet. :thumbsup:
Keep eating the shit that has been spoon fed to you. I will fill you on in a few facts and a little bit of opinion based on those facts.
-Totse was started as a hobby. John Voight may have been an agent and he may have been involved in sharing text files.
-Who ever started Totse passed it on and it was passed on many times.
-The main force (or the Jeff Hunter who opened Totse up to the WWW) is actually called Robert.
-Feds were involved in Totse history, but only as handlers.
-Those that were 'handled' played the game back and went native.
- Around 1994 the feds realised that any information that was shared was available from other online sources.
- After 1994 any fed involvement was purely on a personal level, not sanctioned. Feds 'dipped in' to the place to keep up with current trends.
- The legal team behind Totse was much more active than any sys op posting under the name of Jeff Hunter and not only dealt with legal issues but communicated site issues back to the sys ops who activly stayed away from the site due to the fear of being exposed.
- Zok could have become 'Jeff Hunter', but the sys op at the time would not pass this on to him for fear of what would become and rather than that shut the site.
- Zok showed what would have happened with zoklet.
The simple fact is, totse was controlled and ultimatly run by people with ideals. They were people who were all involved with each other in the late '80's and early '90's who shared an ideal. They could not find some one that could manage the site and who also shared the ideal
They were the guys who walked down the street and could not be identified. They had never been fingerprinted, or suspected of a crime. They may never have even commited a crime. They just wanted to share all knowledge.
From my own point of view, I have never shared who Jeff is. I did have the idea of making a documentary on internet information sharing and drawing it back to the 'Jeff' who had the biggest impact and did not expose him because it would impact on my own personal gain.
I decided against this as he is actually a decent guy who does not deserve the shit. There are people here who I trust - for one reason or another - pretty deeply and they understand I will not give him up.
Their understanding shows them to be 'templars'.
It is about being careful. I have communicated with others IRL - sending things through the post, but I send things to bars or businesses where they can pick up and they do the same with me.
Their can be no truth without anonymity, and accepting the anonymity of others is the first step in trust.
That was after the infraction system was introduced, a system which I vocally despised.
After the infraction system’s implementation, the mods, especially Meta for whom the harassment infraction was created for by Zok(!), gradually turned into a bunch of thin-skinned crybabies. An effective Totse mod needed a good sense of humour and a very thick skin. So when those of a more brittle temperament and/or shorter fuse (e.g. Armsmerchant, Wires, Meta, etc…) were given the means to ban people, they used that ability liberally and promoted the ethos that it was their right as mods to defend themselves against their harassers. Approximately four years later and the situation has evolved on Zoklet to the point where mods now infract for being 'insulted', consequently weak and childish moderating has been allowed to proliferate largely unchallenged. This, I think, is the reason why mods now deal with situations by infraction; it's become the bedrock of mod-culture.
A good moderator(s) should be able to dominate a forum without resorting to these enfeebling tactics and good moderators are selected (and bad ones removed) by foresightful administrators who listen to intelligent advice.
Foresight and listening were never Zok's strong points.
A) Dirty no one would demod you for raping Jeff Hunter. Infact you won't get demodded unless you fuck up big time and harm the community or you just ask to step down.
Dr rocker thanks for the history lesson. I believe that we should follow the ideals and principles of Totse and try to follow a path of enlightenment and information. However, we're not required to implement all the failed policies. We should learn from the History and try to avoid past mistakes. Totse.info is Totse for many of us and it's the new and hopefully better Totse that only carters to the community. It's not owned by one man but it belongs to the Community which consists of contributing members and totseans who work hard on keeping this place alive.
C) Slave of the Beast good to see you here. On Totse.info we have direct bans and I monitor them all the time. Plus we have 4 Global Mods who keep things in check. Abusing power is something that I want to prevent at any cost. When it comes to personal infractions they don't exist. Unless you're flooding Totse or harming the community no one would bother you but you get flood of insults and e-rape from Mods, Admin and users.
By aim to teach moderators to use different tactics to handle a crisis and avoid using power buttons to solve a problem.
Exactly. The way I see it, it is like a tree that has been planted in the woods. Someone planted it but that does not make it his tree. It should be left to nature help it grow. Anyone that wants to feed it can.
Glad to see you post, Slave of the Beast. I missed your name in the mentioning of the three mods who actually cared about the forums under their care, and I should have included it, but I will do so now, belated as it may be.