Solar Energy

AnimusAnimus Acolyte
edited July 2011 in Life
How feasible is it? How do I set it up? What energy output would I be looking at getting? How would you build your own electrical grid?

I've looked up stuff on this, but found very little.

Key questions I want to know:
How much a solar panels cost per meter squared
How much energy that generates a day
How much average energy a family consumes in a day

Comments

  • edited July 2011
    Depends on the system.
    Depends on your climate, nearby trees and the angle of your roof.

    There is only a certain amount of energy hitting any square metre of the earths surface at any given time, and solar panels only convert part of that.

    I work in green energy and carbon trading, i dont think solar is the godsend people hail it to be.

    Look at buying one of these: http://www.cfcl.com.au/BlueGen/ or at least consider investing in the company.
  • AnimusAnimus Acolyte
    edited July 2011
    What systems are most efficient? I'm looking at British Columbia or the North West U.S. as my climate, and I'd imagine I'd angle them whichever way would be best. I have no intention of putting them on a roof, I thought I'd strip a tree of bark and mount them to it.

    And this bluegen- how would I power it? I'm looking for complete self sufficiency here, so if I'm supposed to have a specific type of plant or something like that, it can be ruled out.
  • DaktologistDaktologist Global Moderator
    edited July 2011
    Animus wrote: »

    And this bluegen- how would I power it? I'm looking for complete self sufficiency here, so if I'm supposed to have a specific type of plant or something like that, it can be ruled out.


    It runs on natural gas so it wouldn't be self sufficient.
  • AnimusAnimus Acolyte
    edited July 2011
    It runs on natural gas so it wouldn't be self sufficient.

    That's what I thought, just making sure. I've also heard of similar things that work by using compost in them, they harvest the methane gas of decomposition or something to that effect.
  • buddhabuddha Regular
    edited July 2011
    Animus wrote: »
    How feasible is it? How do I set it up? What energy output would I be looking at getting? How would you build your own electrical grid?

    I've looked up stuff on this, but found very little.

    Key questions I want to know:
    How much a solar panels cost per meter squared
    How much energy that generates a day
    How much average energy a family consumes in a day

    Without being a bit more specific all I can tell you is it all depends on the panels and your power usage, setting up a PV system really isn't that difficult, and there are a lot of things you can do to cut down on the costs.

    Like buying used batteries from places that replace them, like golf cart repair shops and such, or building your own charge controllers. Inverters cost a shitload of money though. Unless you are just going to run everything off of 12v, which is do-able especially with appliances like the kind used in semi-trucks.

    I also posted a thread a while back in this forum about building your own solar panels.
  • ChupaloChupalo Regular
    edited July 2011
    Your solar system will eventually fail. Batteries fail, components fail. You may have tons of batteries but they won't do you any good if you don't have a working system.

    The last 12,000 years of human survival skills have been forgotton by by 99% of the population in the last 100 years, thanks to electricity and colonialism.

    My take on the matter is that eventually the lights will go out. This is why I am weaning myself OFF of electricity. Instead of refrigeration, dig a root cellar and learn to preserve foods. Time and money should be spent on learning old world skills. That is what I'm doing.
  • AnimusAnimus Acolyte
    edited July 2011
    buddha wrote: »
    Inverters cost a shitload of money
    How much are we talking? I have no experience in electrical engineering aspirations, so I'm not even sure what I would need them for.
    buddha wrote: »
    I also posted a thread a while back in this forum about building your own solar panels.
    Very interesting. link is here; http://www.totse.info/bbs/showthread.php/13517-Building-solar-panels-(CHEAP)?highlight=

    Chupalo, I fully intended to use old world skills and electricity in tandem, while I do believe that we are far, FAR too reliant on electricity, this is not to say that we as human beings should forfeit one of our greatest inventions.

    I intended only to use them as a backup survival source, not as a primary, day to day affair, which is why even if the solar panels aren't adeptly efficient, it shouldn't matter, because electricity would be used very sparingly.

    One of the main reasons I would want to have it is to ensure that there is internet access in my community, as I feel it would be a huge step towards a) not becoming withdrawn from society, and current happenings in the world, ie, knowing if you're going to have a bunch of raiders come knocking on your door soon, as well as b) finding new places to recruit people, and make the community grow.

    As it is, mentioning this idea in passing, I already have yourself interested, and Buddha has actually shot me a pm with details, as he intends to start this up next Winter.
    We could literally make the community a physical thing.
  • buddhabuddha Regular
    edited July 2011
    Animus wrote: »
    How much are we talking? I have no experience in electrical engineering aspirations, so I'm not even sure what I would need them for.


    Very interesting. link is here; http://www.totse.info/bbs/showthread.php/13517-Building-solar-panels-(CHEAP)?highlight=

    Chupalo, I fully intended to use old world skills and electricity in tandem, while I do believe that we are far, FAR too reliant on electricity, this is not to say that we as human beings should forfeit one of our greatest inventions.

    I intended only to use them as a backup survival source, not as a primary, day to day affair, which is why even if the solar panels aren't adeptly efficient, it shouldn't matter, because electricity would be used very sparingly.

    One of the main reasons I would want to have it is to ensure that there is internet access in my community, as I feel it would be a huge step towards a) not becoming withdrawn from society, and current happenings in the world, ie, knowing if you're going to have a bunch of raiders come knocking on your door soon, as well as b) finding new places to recruit people, and make the community grow.

    As it is, mentioning this idea in passing, I already have yourself interested, and Buddha has actually shot me a pm with details, as he intends to start this up next Winter.
    We could literally make the community a physical thing.

    Next winter? No, THIS winter. ;)
  • AnimusAnimus Acolyte
    edited July 2011
    Ah, yes, my mistake. :D
  • buddhabuddha Regular
    edited July 2011
    Animus wrote: »
    Ah, yes, my mistake. :D

    Check your PMs.
  • dr rockerdr rocker Regular
    edited July 2011
    Chupalo wrote: »
    Your solar system will eventually fail. Batteries fail, components fail. You may have tons of batteries but they won't do you any good if you don't have a working system.

    The last 12,000 years of human survival skills have been forgotton by by 99% of the population in the last 100 years, thanks to electricity and colonialism.

    My take on the matter is that eventually the lights will go out. This is why I am weaning myself OFF of electricity. Instead of refrigeration, dig a root cellar and learn to preserve foods. Time and money should be spent on learning old world skills. That is what I'm doing.

    I would not consider them a bad investment for a self relient life - even if you just keep them for things that you cannot do any other way and need electricity. Why stop at a root cellar - if you have the time and materiels you could dig an ice cellar. They have been used in England for a few hundred years at least. If you get ice in the winter, you fill the cellar - the ice should last most of the year and you could build a pantry just off the cellar - a lot of the old ones also had this feature.

    Might take you a while to dig by hand tho.
  • ChupaloChupalo Regular
    edited July 2011
    dr rocker wrote: »
    I would not consider them a bad investment for a self relient life - even if you just keep them for things that you cannot do any other way and need electricity. Why stop at a root cellar - if you have the time and materiels you could dig an ice cellar. They have been used in England for a few hundred years at least. If you get ice in the winter, you fill the cellar - the ice should last most of the year and you could build a pantry just off the cellar - a lot of the old ones also had this feature.

    Might take you a while to dig by hand tho.

    Back in the day when settlers would reach a new homestead, the first thing they would do is dig a root cellar (or a pit covered with logs, dirt, straw, etc. They would actually live in it until their main quarters were built, seeing as it would stay a consistent ~55F year round. Most of these cellars included a separate ice pit in a corner for storing winter ice.

    Don't get me wrong, electricity is great, it's just that society is a slave to it. We've had cheap electricity and cheap appliances for 100 years, and now that we're hooked, they can charge whatever they want, and we WILL pay. I'm sure it's just a matter of time before they start to regulate home solar/alternative power rigs to make sure they get their fair share of "fees". They'll wait for it to catch on and then ding everyone.

    If the SHTF then there won't be any Internet to warn you about invading banditos. For that you'll be relying on local CB and HAM networks, as well as shortwave radio for a "bigger picture" of the world's happenings.

    Investing in 12V appliances is a good idea if you must have them, since inverters waste quite a bit of energy in the conversion process. I personally have a nice cache of Sanyo Eneloop batteries and a solar charging rig to power most of my lamps, radios, and other necessary items.
  • edited July 2011
    If your life goal is to live in a dirt pit with marvellous features such as a hole filled with ice then that is not hard to achieve - but you can do better.
    Life will always be a struggle in one way or another - and the solar units up in a tree might be destroyed in a storm, fire or just go milky and fail as solar does.

    But the failure of modern technology isnt the failure of modern knowledge.

    You can create a bio-gas from wood using a process known as pyrolysis - that will give you clean burning fuel that you can use for heating and cooking.
    The end result is a product called 'bio char' that works as a natural fertiliser that will increase crop yields.

    You can also make briquettes that will burn in the pyrolysis stove out of crop byproducts, rice husks, sugar cane.

    You can make a pyrolysis stove out of steel and if it breaks you can fire your own stove out of pottery.

    If you understand how a blast furnance works you can make basic metal tools then the rest is history because you can now fashion things out of wood.


    And because pyrolysis burns fairly clean you wont be making smoke signals telling the banditos where you are.
  • AnimusAnimus Acolyte
    edited July 2011
    If you understand how a blast furnance works you can make basic metal tools

    On to my next point: how in the fuck would you make one of these out in the wilderness? metal tools out there would be extremely useful in the long run.
  • edited July 2011
    You build the blast furnace the same as you build the gasifier stove - clay and stone.

    http://www.tollundman.dk/jern.asp

    If cavemen can do it - so can you!!

    But you're much more likely to have some access to scrap and shit, so check this guy out: http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/index.html

    Metallurgy is something that we should all know about.
  • AnimusAnimus Acolyte
    edited July 2011
    I understand the basics to setting up the forge, but as to actually separating metal from ore, and mining the ore, etc, I am clueless.
  • dr rockerdr rocker Regular
    edited July 2011
    Animus wrote: »
    I understand the basics to setting up the forge, but as to actually separating metal from ore, and mining the ore, etc, I am clueless.

    As has already been stated above, you use scrap instead of ore. Where modern iron making was invented a few miles down the road from me, they mix crap rusted scrap, limestone, coke and a bit of ore, but you can leave the ore out. The proportions are something you will not learn even if I tell you, so go find it out. It will not be hard to find.

    The way the steel is produced means you make a decent amount, cast it into ingots and work with them. You could cast individual things if you wanted, but I would always have some moulds for ingots for any excess. You would have to learn metal working to do anything with the metal however. Get a couple of hours on an oxy set with a decent pair of pliars, a hammer and a big vice and use a lot of steel - see how far you can get it before you make a forge - working hot metal is one skill to master whilst getting the heat in the right places in the forge is entirly another.

    Casting iron and steel is actually a lot easier than casting aluminium if you can get the heat - when melting and casting ali, chemicals have to be added that you generally have to go to a chemist or chemical supply agency to get to keep the ali pure. If I was casting something out of steel scrap I would just melt it, if it was particularly fucked I would add limestone - you can pick this up on the beach or go to a builders merchant, its up to you.

    You would probably end up with something like pig iron. You could heat it and beat it wrought or alloy it to cast it into a part if you had adecent supply of other metals that are quite pure. You could also make a decent steel but it would involve a lot more of your time, energy, charcoal etc. that you better use surviving.

    Do not worry about sources of scrap - their will be enough around - if it was a period of time after a SHTF episode that you had to make iron tools, so many people would be dead there would be more than enough scrap to go around. If you are anywhere near any kind of civiliastion in the developed or developing world you would be surrounded by shit made of steel. If you are not, you have managed without it so bad so far.

    If you have not melted any metal so far, melt some lead and cast that. You can use single sided wooden forms to cast into to make shit. It will give you a feeling for dealing with molten metal. Do not breath the fumes so much and do not spill it on anyone or pets.
  • ChupaloChupalo Regular
    edited July 2011
    dr rocker wrote: »
    ...do not spill it on anyone or pets.

    Party pooper.
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