http://www.totse.info/bbs/showthread.php?t=10332
FATTY's bringing up solid points.
While he may not be going about it in the best of ways, he's only doing it to draw attention to the situation with -SpectraL and DaGuru.
I think you should publicly address his points. Move the thread to the Suggestions forum, and mass-pm everyone to participate in the discussion.
If you're worried about this idea giving Spec and DG a new chance to cause drama, then those two shit-stirring clowns are winning. We shouldn't have to censor ourselves out of fear a couple users will derail it into a shitstorm.
I know we're trying to throw in a lot of checks and balances to keep the mods from being the over-powered elitists we have at Zoklet, but I think we SHOULD be able to use our powers in cases like -SpectraL and DaGuru.
There's a lot of truth to be found here. I am not impressed with Dfg's current policy of ignoring the wishes of the community in order to satisfy the demands of a couple fuckups who do nothing for the community. Their only purpose is to destroy this site, and by failing to take any action to stop them, Dfg is tearing down the very site he tried to build up.
I have to agrewe with a lot of what OP is saying. The fact that spectral and DaGuru have been able to derail and harm this site for this long unchecked isnt good.
So what can the guy do? Fuck, I am getting really pissy with their bullshit as well, but if he bans them they will just come back under different names, and if mods boot them out of threads they just open up new threads dedicated to their butthurt. We shouldn't look to DFG to solve these problems, he is being used as a scapegoat, and the more we look to him to solve the problems, the more we will be dissapointed.
One person can only do so much, I wish we could "pogrom" the fuckers and leave them tarred and feathered on the bad side of town. I have started just going forum by forum looking for threads I like lately, instead of hitting "new posts" because I inevitably see a re hash of yesterdays drama in new threads.
I am rather interested in how this plays out, it is a good example of how a community blames it's own failings on it's leadership. We can censor anyone we want to by not responding to their bullshit, but instead we wade right in to the swamp and give them what they came for.
The "hot topics" tonight was a breath of fresh air, no significant drama, and things seem to be calming down. Good, I am going to go do what I do well and post a recipe.
Also "old totse rules"? All I see is a bunch of text Dfg threw together that nobody actually follows.
If people did not think that Dfg had the intention of following the old rules, why would they come here? Many people left zoklet, because Zok did not actually believe in anything firm.
You are right about Dfg's new moderation guide though. It is vague and is not based on firm principles. I think that it should be revised to the point where it can be clear, solid, and not based on opinion. It it does not meet those requirements, it should be discarded.
For the record I honestly believe Dfg is doing a great job with this site and is a very able admin and like CO said one man can only do so much but still imo he needs to take some direct action on this Spectral/Daguru thing. Overall it seems to be dying down which is a good thing.
If people did not think that Dfg had the intention of following the old rules, why would they come here? Many people left zoklet, because Zok did not actually believe in anything firm.
I came here knowing almost nothing about the old TOTSE. I stayed for the community. Of course, this doesn't apply to everyone, but there's more than just the old place that keeps people here. Some people come with the understanding that the old TOTSE will never return, but they still stay because we can still build something up here. I'm sure a lot of people come here without being aware of or remembering any rules from a past era.
I came here knowing almost nothing about the old TOTSE. I stayed for the community. Of course, this doesn't apply to everyone, but there's more than just the old place that keeps people here. Some people come with the understanding that the old TOTSE will never return, but they still stay because we can still build something up here. I'm sure a lot of people come here without being aware of or remembering any rules from a past era.
That is very true, but I don't think that the rules are about the users from the past. I think the rules can allow for even more growth in the future, simply because the very personality of the people who find this place in the past, present, and future have one thing in common, which is that for the most part they do not like restrictions.
You should have voted for me then C/O. I promise an end to the drama and I WILL deliver on that promise.
So do you really want to be the one everyone blames when shit goes haywire? Do you really want to respond to endless PMs from butthurt jackoffs? Damn fatty, if I could flick a switch and make you admin I really would, just to see what would happen.
I don't like it either, but if we give in to our feelings and ban them, we will be no better than all of the many other sites out there.
They're taking advantage of this still-forming community. The rules havn't yet been properly fleshed out, and they're getting away with whatever they want.
This is the perfect time to have the community put in their opinions on what sort of behavior should be considered detrimental to this site.
I'm not going to say DaGuru or -SpectraL are unreasonable (even though they are), but sooner or later we'll encounter a member who's soul purpose is to bring down this site.
Some people will not be talked down. We'll need a clearly defined method of dealing with them.
Moving to H&S. Fatty you raise good points. I didn't want to ban you but once you flood using report feature you force me to ban you. It states in the report section that it should be used for etc purposes. You could have PM'ed a Mod,Global Mod or Me. I did take notice of the derailment and I tried to address the problem.
But you're right about certain things. If DG&Spec broke any rules I could take care of them but they haven't. Unless the community appeals to remove them I can't do anything mate.
There is a policy revision thread already in progress, I would love to get some feedback from you FATTY. You're a great member and no I am not trying to bring you down or anything. You just went the wrong way with reporting a situation mate.
So am I allowed to actually respond to this thread, since my name is peppered all over it like a pack of groupies awestruck at a star? Or just having my name on the thread leaves such butthurt and tears for 1/2 of you.....it'll be your "proof" to how I'm ruining this site because I dare give a dissenting idea on your precious thread?
So am I allowed to actually respond to this thread, since my name is peppered all over it like a pack of groupies awestruck at a star? Or just having my name on the thread leaves such butthurt and tears for 1/2 of you.....it'll be your "proof" to how I'm ruining this site because I dare give a dissenting idea on your precious thread?
Do you actually care if you are allowed? Or are you just grandstanding?
I thought that the old totse rules that are stated in the FAQ were what guided this site.
If that is not true, then we must change the name of this place.
Why? There is not a nation in history that has had static legislation. Just because a nation adds, amends, or rescinds it's rules does not mean it changes it's name.
If people did not think that Dfg had the intention of following the old rules, why would they come here? Many people left zoklet, because Zok did not actually believe in anything firm.
You are right about Dfg's new moderation guide though. It is vague and is not based on firm principles. I think that it should be revised to the point where it can be clear, solid, and not based on opinion. It it does not meet those requirements, it should be discarded.
Why throw out the baby with the bathwater and start over from scratch? It is a solid foundation that just needs some clarifications, definitions, and perhaps some additions.
I came here knowing almost nothing about the old TOTSE. I stayed for the community. Of course, this doesn't apply to everyone, but there's more than just the old place that keeps people here. Some people come with the understanding that the old TOTSE will never return, but they still stay because we can still build something up here. I'm sure a lot of people come here without being aware of or remembering any rules from a past era.
This is also a good point. That, and just because Totse had certain rules at a certain time does not mean that those rules still work best at a different time. Everything is fluid if a thing does not change it stagnates and dies eventually. That is not saying that things should change for the sake off change but when new circumstance, challenges, and or dynamics present themselves which the current rules provide no clear cut solution to then change must be considered.
They're taking advantage of this still-forming community. The rules havn't yet been properly fleshed out, and they're getting away with whatever they want.
This is the perfect time to have the community put in their opinions on what sort of behavior should be considered detrimental to this site.
I'm not going to say DaGuru or -SpectraL are unreasonable (even though they are), but sooner or later we'll encounter a member who's soul purpose is to bring down this site. Some people will not be talked down. We'll need a clearly defined method of dealing with them.
Several good points have been brought up ITT and these are two of them.
Moving to H&S. Fatty you raise good points. I didn't want to ban you but once you flood using report feature you force me to ban you. It states in the report section that it should be used for etc purposes. You could have PM'ed a Mod,Global Mod or Me. I did take notice of the derailment and I tried to address the problem.
But you're right about certain things. If DG&Spec broke any rules I could take care of them but they haven't. Unless the community appeals to remove them I can't do anything mate.
There is a policy revision thread already in progress, I would love to get some feedback from you FATTY. You're a great member and no I am not trying to bring you down or anything. You just went the wrong way with reporting a situation mate.
Fatty you have brought up some great point ITT and I am starting to wonder if you have not been simply acting like an ass to prove a point that there needs to be some method of dealing with those who's sole intention is to harm the site. But in this instance I feel your point would have been made better with a PM.
Do you actually care if you are allowed? Or are you just grandstanding?
Considering the last time you started a Q:A with me, you completely walked away from that exchange.....why should I answer these petty questions of yours now?
I see, well I can't say I agree with anyone having their PM's taken from them. Banning for certain reasons is one thing but to take the PM from them after they have served their ban serves no purpose that I can see.
Well, I'd love to but there is the tiny matter of me not being able to PM. One of the side effects of being held prisoner in an Islamic Caliphate.
Well, you did flood using PM's as well. But I am sure Hellish restored it. I will remove the infraction from your infraction list and hopefully we can move on.
Considering the last time you started a Q:A with me, you completely walked away from that exchange.....why should I answer these petty questions of yours now?
So what, because IRL some of us have more integrity then most of you.....we have to "play fair" and not deal within the same parameters as everyone else?
I asked if you knew what integrity meant and after ducking an dodging and trying to bring TDR into it you gave me a dictionary definition, as if thats really what I was asking. If your idea of integrity is stooping to others levels than you obviously don't know what it means. Perhaps you just mispoke, its ok to admit it instead of dancing around the subject.
Oh wait in that thread it was you asking the questions, and after I answered and made it apparent you were just talking out of your ass and looking for something else to pick at, YOU ducked out of the conversation.
So, once again, do you really care if you are allowed to post here or are you just grandstanding? Take your time and answer the question directly if you choose, or you could ignore me for my past Q+A transgressions, sorry about that, I'll work on it.
FATTY_MCFUCKFACE
Regular
Comments
Yeah, a mudslime bathing? It's new to me too.
:thumbsup:
Because those 2 are dragging the site down with there constant bitching/
How can we claim to any better than zoklet if we ban people for constantly complaining? Our very rules say that they have a right to do this.
We have rules?
The fact that they turn any thread they enter into a bitchfest is a problem. It goes beyond complaining.
I thought that the old totse rules that are stated in the FAQ were what guided this site.
If that is not true, then we must change the name of this place.
I don't like it either, but if we give in to our feelings and ban them, we will be no better than all of the many other sites out there.
The old totse had rules as well.
You know what I mean.
Also "old totse rules"? All I see is a bunch of text Dfg threw together that nobody actually follows.
One person can only do so much, I wish we could "pogrom" the fuckers and leave them tarred and feathered on the bad side of town. I have started just going forum by forum looking for threads I like lately, instead of hitting "new posts" because I inevitably see a re hash of yesterdays drama in new threads.
I am rather interested in how this plays out, it is a good example of how a community blames it's own failings on it's leadership. We can censor anyone we want to by not responding to their bullshit, but instead we wade right in to the swamp and give them what they came for.
The "hot topics" tonight was a breath of fresh air, no significant drama, and things seem to be calming down. Good, I am going to go do what I do well and post a recipe.
C/O
"we ARE totse"
If people did not think that Dfg had the intention of following the old rules, why would they come here? Many people left zoklet, because Zok did not actually believe in anything firm.
You are right about Dfg's new moderation guide though. It is vague and is not based on firm principles. I think that it should be revised to the point where it can be clear, solid, and not based on opinion. It it does not meet those requirements, it should be discarded.
I came here knowing almost nothing about the old TOTSE. I stayed for the community. Of course, this doesn't apply to everyone, but there's more than just the old place that keeps people here. Some people come with the understanding that the old TOTSE will never return, but they still stay because we can still build something up here. I'm sure a lot of people come here without being aware of or remembering any rules from a past era.
That is why I voted for you. You might not gaurentee freedom of speech, but at least you are not a fence sitter. :thumbsup:
Still, I though that you did not want administrators to moderate?
That is very true, but I don't think that the rules are about the users from the past. I think the rules can allow for even more growth in the future, simply because the very personality of the people who find this place in the past, present, and future have one thing in common, which is that for the most part they do not like restrictions.
So do you really want to be the one everyone blames when shit goes haywire? Do you really want to respond to endless PMs from butthurt jackoffs? Damn fatty, if I could flick a switch and make you admin I really would, just to see what would happen.
This is the perfect time to have the community put in their opinions on what sort of behavior should be considered detrimental to this site.
I'm not going to say DaGuru or -SpectraL are unreasonable (even though they are), but sooner or later we'll encounter a member who's soul purpose is to bring down this site.
Some people will not be talked down. We'll need a clearly defined method of dealing with them.
But you're right about certain things. If DG&Spec broke any rules I could take care of them but they haven't. Unless the community appeals to remove them I can't do anything mate.
There is a policy revision thread already in progress, I would love to get some feedback from you FATTY. You're a great member and no I am not trying to bring you down or anything. You just went the wrong way with reporting a situation mate.
Do you actually care if you are allowed? Or are you just grandstanding?
Why? There is not a nation in history that has had static legislation. Just because a nation adds, amends, or rescinds it's rules does not mean it changes it's name.
Why throw out the baby with the bathwater and start over from scratch? It is a solid foundation that just needs some clarifications, definitions, and perhaps some additions.
This is also a good point. That, and just because Totse had certain rules at a certain time does not mean that those rules still work best at a different time. Everything is fluid if a thing does not change it stagnates and dies eventually. That is not saying that things should change for the sake off change but when new circumstance, challenges, and or dynamics present themselves which the current rules provide no clear cut solution to then change must be considered.
Several good points have been brought up ITT and these are two of them.
Fatty you have brought up some great point ITT and I am starting to wonder if you have not been simply acting like an ass to prove a point that there needs to be some method of dealing with those who's sole intention is to harm the site. But in this instance I feel your point would have been made better with a PM.
Considering the last time you started a Q:A with me, you completely walked away from that exchange.....why should I answer these petty questions of yours now?
http://www.totse.info/bbs/showpost.php?p=127700&postcount=29
Well, you did flood using PM's as well. But I am sure Hellish restored it. I will remove the infraction from your infraction list and hopefully we can move on.
Your link fails, try to keep your eye on the ball. Mabye you are talking about this thread?
http://www.totse.info/bbs/showthread.php?t=10274&page=2
I asked if you knew what integrity meant and after ducking an dodging and trying to bring TDR into it you gave me a dictionary definition, as if thats really what I was asking. If your idea of integrity is stooping to others levels than you obviously don't know what it means. Perhaps you just mispoke, its ok to admit it instead of dancing around the subject.
Or mabye you are talking about this thread?
http://www.totse.info/bbs/showthread.php?t=10244&page=3
Oh wait in that thread it was you asking the questions, and after I answered and made it apparent you were just talking out of your ass and looking for something else to pick at, YOU ducked out of the conversation.
So, once again, do you really care if you are allowed to post here or are you just grandstanding? Take your time and answer the question directly if you choose, or you could ignore me for my past Q+A transgressions, sorry about that, I'll work on it.