Very interesting. I would very much like to try this. When you tell us to cap the jar so fumes dont escape is there any danger of the glass jar exploding because of built up pressure?
Very interesting. I would very much like to try this. When you tell us to cap the jar so fumes dont escape is there any danger of the glass jar exploding because of built up pressure?
I believe I did specify to cap it loosely.
But even with a tightly sealed container, I'd say no. The reaction does not directly generate any gas, so the only pressure increase will come from adiabatic heating. We're talking 20*C to ~50*C here, so it will be minimal.
The alternative is to slowly add AN to cold sulfuric in an open container, keeping the temperature down to prevent the nitric from evaporating out of the mixture too quickly. This is slow, prone to high losses, and leaves lots of brown gunk in the mixture if you're starting with drain cleaner grade acid.
I've tested them all and a quick addition to a semi-closed container is superior in all aspects.
Ok so I know fuck all about chemistry but, I am to believe that when the boom boom happens this produces extra O2 like enough to oxidize certain metals? Like Al?
Get where I'm going with this? Your sig is a clue.
Ok so I know fuck all about chemistry but, I am to believe that when the boom boom happens this produces extra O2 like enough to oxidize certain metals? Like Al?
Yeah, each ETN molecule has one excess oxygen atom in its structure, which can be used to oxidize an active metal such as Al. Adding Al will increase the overall energy output, and slightly decrease the velocity of detonation.
The 'Red Label' is 44.3% and far too dilute for this synthesis; the 'Blue Label' is 94.2% and works well.
If I were to wager a guess as to why there are multiple versions, it's because the corporate crybabies at Walmart felt that concentrated H2SO4 was too dangerous to have on their shelves, and pressured the manufacturer into producing a 'safer' version.
Legitimate hardware stores are your best bet for concentrated H2SO4 based drain cleaners.
Added a note about the drain cleaner, thanks for reminding me.
ETN is capable of boosting most secondaries, as it is a very strong explosive with a RE factor of about 1.6. AN+German Dark will be quite sensitive and should only need a gram or so, while ANFO is a bitch to detonate and will likely need 20-30g and very strong confinement.
You still need a primary to set off the ETN, but the amounts required are comparatively small. 100-200mg of TATP will reliably detonate ETN.
Wow, 1.6? That's some serious stuff for something completely OTC. I like.
For a comparison to other explosives, here's the RE factor table from Wikipedia. I've verified most of these figures using other sources, so it's quite accurate.
On another note, while driving to college today I passed a convoy of 3 cop cars heading in the opposite direction. I figured they were coming to my place to arrest me for posting such controversial information on the internet. Fortunately, I'm still here. :hai:
I was hoping that there would be more factors on that page, I already knew most of them. They are accurate for the ones that I do know.
Can't wait for part 2.
When you recrystallize do you use ethanol or acetone as a solvent? Also, do you dissolve in a heated solvent, filter, and then cool the solvent or do you dissolve, filter, and then crash in water?
Acetone is too strong of a solvent, but ethanol and methanol work well. I personally use methanol, as it's the cheapest @ ~$2/L. In a nutshell: Dissolve the crude ETN in heated methanol, add sodium bicarbonate solution to neutralize residual acids, crash into water, filter out the ETN, and optionally wash it with 5% urea solution to stabilize.
The writeup for the 2nd part is nearly done, and should be posted soon.
I've encountered problems with this methodology of synthesis. What I found to be much more fruitful is to use the concentration of your H2SO4 as a limiting reagent. When I was attempting the procedure outlines above I was getting much lower than theoretical yields.
Has anyone seen what concentrated H2SO4 does to sugar alcohols? It chemically strips them down to pure carbon. This same thirst affects the unreacted and unnitrated erythritol from the moment it is introduced to the mixed acids.
What I prefer to do is add conc. sulphuric to a mixture of HNO3 and erythritol. This gives the sugar a fighting chance for nitration not desiccation. This may have been a phenomenon contained to myself because I haven't spoken with anyone that tried my same writeup.
Interesting thread. The only thing I know about chemistry is from the old adage "if it moves it's biology, if it smells it's chemistry and if it doesn't work it's physics"
I've encountered problems with this methodology of synthesis. What I found to be much more fruitful is to use the concentration of your H2SO4 as a limiting reagent. When I was attempting the procedure outlines above I was getting much lower than theoretical yields.
In my experience, erythritol is only dehydrated by concentrated sulfuric acid at high temperatures; I've never encountered a problem when adding the sugar alcohol directly to slightly chilled mixed acids. Yields are typically 70-80% of theoretical, depending on the batch.
Comments
This is going straight to the CMS time now.
EDIT: http://www.totse.info/cms/complete-otc-synthesis-of-etn
I believe I did specify to cap it loosely.
But even with a tightly sealed container, I'd say no. The reaction does not directly generate any gas, so the only pressure increase will come from adiabatic heating. We're talking 20*C to ~50*C here, so it will be minimal.
The alternative is to slowly add AN to cold sulfuric in an open container, keeping the temperature down to prevent the nitric from evaporating out of the mixture too quickly. This is slow, prone to high losses, and leaves lots of brown gunk in the mixture if you're starting with drain cleaner grade acid.
I've tested them all and a quick addition to a semi-closed container is superior in all aspects.
Get where I'm going with this? Your sig is a clue.
Yeah, each ETN molecule has one excess oxygen atom in its structure, which can be used to oxidize an active metal such as Al. Adding Al will increase the overall energy output, and slightly decrease the velocity of detonation.
There are two versions.
The 'Red Label' is 44.3% and far too dilute for this synthesis; the 'Blue Label' is 94.2% and works well.
If I were to wager a guess as to why there are multiple versions, it's because the corporate crybabies at Walmart felt that concentrated H2SO4 was too dangerous to have on their shelves, and pressured the manufacturer into producing a 'safer' version.
Legitimate hardware stores are your best bet for concentrated H2SO4 based drain cleaners.
Hmm, I'm thinking about making this since it seems much safer than TATP. Is this stuff strong enough to set off some ANFO or AN+German dark?
ETN is capable of boosting most secondaries, as it is a very strong explosive with a RE factor of about 1.6. AN+German Dark will be quite sensitive and should only need a gram or so, while ANFO is a bitch to detonate and will likely need 20-30g and very strong confinement.
You still need a primary to set off the ETN, but the amounts required are comparatively small. 100-200mg of TATP will reliably detonate ETN.
Basically bomb making for dummies
Wow, 1.6? That's some serious stuff for something completely OTC. I like.
I was planning to make a separate guide for applications of explosives. Part 2 is only going to cover recrystallization/storage preparation.
For a comparison to other explosives, here's the RE factor table from Wikipedia. I've verified most of these figures using other sources, so it's quite accurate.
On another note, while driving to college today I passed a convoy of 3 cop cars heading in the opposite direction. I figured they were coming to my place to arrest me for posting such controversial information on the internet. Fortunately, I'm still here. :hai:
Can't wait for part 2.
Also, what are you studying?
Thanks, thank you.
The writeup for the 2nd part is nearly done, and should be posted soon.
Has anyone seen what concentrated H2SO4 does to sugar alcohols? It chemically strips them down to pure carbon. This same thirst affects the unreacted and unnitrated erythritol from the moment it is introduced to the mixed acids.
What I prefer to do is add conc. sulphuric to a mixture of HNO3 and erythritol. This gives the sugar a fighting chance for nitration not desiccation. This may have been a phenomenon contained to myself because I haven't spoken with anyone that tried my same writeup.
In my experience, erythritol is only dehydrated by concentrated sulfuric acid at high temperatures; I've never encountered a problem when adding the sugar alcohol directly to slightly chilled mixed acids. Yields are typically 70-80% of theoretical, depending on the batch.