A Discussion To Define Off Topic Posting
Darth Beaver
Meine Ehre heißt Treue
In the interests of trying to solve a problem while it is still small I suggest we use this thread to define off topic posting and a method to prevent it from derailing good threads in serious discussion forums.
We all know that conversations area fluid thing and a comment or sentence in one users on topic post can lead to legitimate discussion "drift" that may not be entirely on topic in regard to the OP. In my opinion this thread exemplifies that phenomenon.
On the other hand we have all seen posts that have nothing to do with anything that is actually being discussed and seem to only be made with the purpose of derailing the thread or as a childish attempt to piss of a user due to some personal feud, to get attention at the expense of the thread, or as a continued effort to simply ruin threads. In my opinion this is an example of that type of off topic BS.
Right now it may not seem like a big thing, and it really isn't, yet. But as the site grows there will be more and more of this and it will be easier to deal with constructively if we deal with the problem while it is small.
I would welcome any thoughts on what you think off topic posting actually is and how others think it should be handled.
Should it be allowed without restriction in all forums?
Should it only be permitted in HB and similar "silly" forums and regulated i serious discussion areas?
Would a simple thread ban be the best approach to ensure freedom of speech and minimize the damage done to a thread?
Discuss...
We all know that conversations area fluid thing and a comment or sentence in one users on topic post can lead to legitimate discussion "drift" that may not be entirely on topic in regard to the OP. In my opinion this thread exemplifies that phenomenon.
On the other hand we have all seen posts that have nothing to do with anything that is actually being discussed and seem to only be made with the purpose of derailing the thread or as a childish attempt to piss of a user due to some personal feud, to get attention at the expense of the thread, or as a continued effort to simply ruin threads. In my opinion this is an example of that type of off topic BS.
Right now it may not seem like a big thing, and it really isn't, yet. But as the site grows there will be more and more of this and it will be easier to deal with constructively if we deal with the problem while it is small.
I would welcome any thoughts on what you think off topic posting actually is and how others think it should be handled.
Should it be allowed without restriction in all forums?
Should it only be permitted in HB and similar "silly" forums and regulated i serious discussion areas?
Would a simple thread ban be the best approach to ensure freedom of speech and minimize the damage done to a thread?
Discuss...
Comments
So I clapped.
The lights came on.
Clap on. Clap off. The Clapper.
Freedom of speech should not include saying things that prevent others from having a conversation. If you take freedom of speech as absolute literal freedom then why have mods or accounts? Oh, I know, cuz' then you get /b/.
Thank you for your non-contribution to this thread.
That isn't to say that mods should go crazy with the banhammer but I think there needs to be a limit. Like OP said this is something we need to figure out before the site gets big.
Totse was always about freedom of speech and any idea or topic was allowed. That didn't mean it was 4chan and there were rules that were enforced. There is a big difference between allowing any topic to be discussed and allowing mindless spam.
EDIT: I also don't believe we should ban or anything off 1 harmless off topic post but if a user continues to try an derail a thread something should be done.
/b is moderated, and so is every other site out there. Some are more heavily moderated than others obviously.
I do very little moderation at my site however. I'll add the odd spoiler tag, fix bbcode, and move threads. That's about it.
I believe freedom of speech is a two way street. You have the right to speak your mind, but also the right to not listen to others. To this end, we installed an enhanced ignore feature where anyone you put on ignore is restricted from posting in your threads. No one should be forced to read something against their will, and some people need an actual button to take care of that.
I don't know if totse is interested in something like that, it works for amkon.
Again we see eye to eye...
Especially the last part which is why I mentioned the thread ban as a possible tool. But even then not for one comment but in the case of an obvious effort.
Edit: Here is a good example of where a thread ban might have kept an otherwise good thread clear of useless scribbling.
https://www.totse.info/bbs/showpost.php?p=120547&postcount=3
https://www.totse.info/bbs/showpost.php?p=120589&postcount=7
https://www.totse.info/bbs/showpost.php?p=120593&postcount=9
https://www.totse.info/bbs/showpost.php?p=120670&postcount=15
https://www.totse.info/bbs/showpost.php?p=120717&postcount=17
Taken from the original rules (which somebody cleverly changed to say totse.info):
The way I see it is that most of those rules regulate threads. Even in SG there were rules such as a requirement that each thread be started by at least one complete sentence that would generate discussion, not just saying "discuss".
The only rules that should regulate individual posts are 3,4, and 5 which I believe should be strictly enforced.
Aside from that I do not believe there should be any regulation of individual posts. DirtySanchez and fanglekai have said that on totse there were strict rules, and they are correct but the rules applied mainly to those who started threads, not those who posted in them. The idea of an "off topic posts rule" was not an original totse idea and comes from zoklet influence.
On totse, we have seen many people post things like "+1",or "5char", or "InB4 Lock", and the moderators did nothing about it. None of us complained then because there was so much great content and we enjoyed it.
This "no off topic posts" thing was just made by Zok to make his forum like every other forum on the internet. We should focus on content not on individual posts.
In any event, whether you want to call it SPAM, off topic posting, or purple pointed posting piles, the posts I cited are certainly one example of what #4 intended to prevent. If you want to call it SPAM for reasons of nostalgic purity I am fine with that it is the same thing.
From the sounds of your op and this post here, this thread was started because of a problem you have with one other member here, fatty mcfuckface.
Why don't you take it up with him personally?
Most of the time, this can be alleviated simply by ignoring the offending post. The biggest problem is that people feel an urge to reciprocate, and this just invites more trouble.
When you have been around longer you will realize how this sounds. The plain truth is that Fatty just stands out as a shining example of how to shit on a thread. If you look closely you will see I was not even posting there. So your butt hurt theory holds no water.
While I admit I too realize Fatty is kind of dull I really don't have anything against him personally. Even though he seems to be mad ATM.
His reasons for starting the thread don't matter to me. the fact is it's something that needs to be discussed. Think about it like this. In America we have (supposedly) absolute freedom of speech. Now does that mean I should be allowed to go onto an airplane and yell that I have a bomb on me with no consequences?
Exceptions to free speech
I am sure you recall more about that troll attempt than I do...
Hit the nail on the head with that one...
I'm not gonna stick around if people like Fatty start invading. I wanna hear some mature arguments/debates on interesting topics, not posts from an unoriginal troll who has nothing better to do in RL. That shit is boring as fuck. Seen it all a thousand times before on zoklet and totse and it lost it's effectiveness a long time ago.
Notice how they just keep posting until someone eventually responds. Their troll attempts are simply too crap to merit an off topic discussion.
This is the most accurate statement in this thread so far....and as long as there is insistence with continuing to play the game again and again and again with posters like Fatty, then all the other discussion on this thread is just "happy" talk.
Now if Fatty were to be perma-banned, it might show some seriousness in really caring to determine what "off-topic" posting is.....but as long as a spamming, unoriginal, 4-channing kidiots like him gets to waste all of our times repetitively ad nauseum....any discussion of "quality" is just laughable empty rhetoric at best.
I never said it was JUST because of abusing the report feature. I haven't seen even ONE post that ever came off his keyboard worth reading. You got a select few example to show to me what exactyt Totse would be "missing" other than 4-chan stupidity?
And mocking me over post count/user status is absurd....by your logic if Steven Hawking wheeled his ass into my kid's 2nd grade math class, he'd be the most "ignorant" one there because he just got there 2 minutes ago. :eek:
Alrighty then!
The only reason I mentioned your post count is that it's retarded to just sign up and immediately start suggesting we perma ban people.
Sorry, but I thought this was a community for INFORMATIONAL posting. I didn't realize there was clique-ish bullshit or cutesy prerequisites in order to have a "valid" voice here.
So tell me Dirty, how many posts or days do I have to put in...till my takes seem to have merit in YOUR eyes.
I never said anything about cliqueish bullshit. All I'm saying is that you haven't contributed shit to this forum and already you are suggesting we perma ban people. Even your introduction post was in Bitch and moan.:rolleyes:
Funny how just a couple of posts in...right back to the same old song and dance of "kill the messenger" instead of refuting the points I made.
Lot easier playing THIS game, then it is finding "worthy" posts under Fatty's account...ain't it Dirty? :cool:
Yeah, B & M....the more chaotic/ruthless/real/hardcore/TRUTHFUL forum of Totse has been my home away from home since around 06' or so. So what of it????
So what your suggesting is to ban people if there posts don't contain the quality you desire?
I'm suggesting exactly what I suggested in my first post on this thread, until you wanted to start critiquing my credibility as a poster. Which by the way could serve as a GREAT example of some "off-topic posting" in and of itself. Granted, your takes have been a bit beyond the simplistic IMG tag, but picking on someone's post count/user title/other fluff bullshit is hardly EVER "decent" or "informational" posting either.
Yeah, I've made it clear in the past and just recently on Totse.....I think the infraction system is flawed and makes it too much of a "game" for those that get off on trolling and attention whoring. Have a tribunal of the most trusted/smartest posters deal with the REPETITIVE and CONSTANT problems on here......and if a heavy majority vote sees no real "use" in them being here, then just perma-ban/IP rape/court order/go fuckin jihad on the fools tainting everyone else's experience.
Or we can continue to play pattycake with all these games, and have the same kind of shit you've witnessed in the old Totse/Zoklet for the last several years....where so much of the "experience" of posting is talking about board politics and silly nonsense.
But here are few things:
A) Perma-ban doesn't work and we won't use it for petty things, unless someone FUCKS up big time.
C) Users flooding and trashing other sections will be dealt with.
D) Global Mods are there and I am going to train them to handle trouble makers.
gtg
I have been on topic:facepalm: DaGuru came in after not contributing shit and is suggesting perma banning people. I told him thats retarded and he has no room to suggest perma bans.
I agree spammers need to be dealt with and stupid one liners shouldn't be allowed in the serious forums. But a perma ban for anyone at this point is just retarded.
I was going to suggest something along these lines - even pick users at randome using (rand=0-2500) in excel and then putting it to members based on the member number.
If we did have 'trusted / smartest' posters it should be done in rotation - deciding on trusted / smartest is again, subjective however and open to bad feeling.
What we need at this stage is reason for members to join and post. A rain of shit on a thread is not one of these, but we have also seen members post threads that are pretty similar in the way of 'what do you think is shit' - lets try and keep it in once place - at least then we are showing that those that care can be adult about things.
Take a chill pill. He suggested a perma ban. That doesn't mean we're going to do just that. Let him share his opinions.
Sorry about the angry tone but I wouldn't be annoyed by it so much if I didn't know about DaGurus previous posting history and how all he does is bitch and cry. I know on totse everyone starts fresh but in this case he started by suggesting perma bans for stupid reasons.
Dude, I already talked with him regarding this. He is open to voice whatever he feels like it. Just go with the flow. Even if perma ban is implemented it cannot work since we have guests posting enabled and top of that, no one is trigger happen enough to reinforce it unless he has some sort of grudge against the user.
How did this guy even become a mod? Does he even realize this is a thread discussing ways to deal/whats acceptable with off-topic posters? How many posts you have is entirely irrelevant to a discussion, and trying to degrade other peoples posts by pointing out they are only an acolyte is unbelievably childish, not to mention stupid.
I don't mind a troll every now and then. If anything it reaffirms positive things in my life because I know that at least my life isn't so pathetic, sad and boring that I have to sit around trolling pointlessly on the internet to get attention...So while I think a perma ban may be a bit harsh, in some cases I do see the point of it.