I read the thread and saw the poll. Yes, failtrolling will be a problem in the future but that doesn't mean we need to take drastic steps against it. If I wanted I would have personally pm'ed these users and requested them to contribute and IMO this is the best way to fix these issues.
But as TDR mentioned the mod team is young. I am pretty much used to flame and bitches but the new mods on Totse aren't and they need some encounters like these to help them grow.
I am not an idiot and I will not follow a path that will eventually harm the community. If required we can do the above steps but in a controlled manner. Remember mods are here to remove stuff like cp etc and manage the forums without using force. Mods need to learn to deal with users such as TDR [whom I know is having some fun] without using the buttons.
Consider this a test, and try to learn from it and find a way that would be suitable for everyone.
I read the thread and saw the poll. Yes, failtrolling will be a problem in the future but that doesn't mean we need to take drastic steps against it. If I wanted I would have personally pm'ed these users are requested them to contribute and IMO this is the best way to fix these issues.
But ask TDR mentioned the mod team is young. I am pretty much used to flame and bitches but the new mods on Totse aren't and they need some encounters like these to help them grow.
I am not an idiot and I will not follow a path that will eventually harm the community. If required we can do the above steps but in a controlled manner. Remembers mods are here to remove stuff like cp etc and manage the forums without using force. Mods need to learn to deal with users such as TDR [whom I know is having some fun] without using the buttons.
Consider this a test, and try to learn from it and find a way that would be suitable for everyone.
Fang thanks for making this thread.
See, now DFG gets it. I can now resume my normal programing and perhaps even start to make some contributions in areas that actually interest me. Other than fucking with SqurtyManjiz until I find another toy that is so easy to wind up.
Thanks for the statement. This failtroll thing has to be dealt with sooner or later. Threads that get derailed for pages and pages become garbage, and we really don't want a wasteland here.
I think it's very important to remember that as Zoklet crumbles under the weight of its own incompetent admins and mods there will be a sudden half-formed thought in the empty heads of the attention-whore-children over there to come over here and begin their bullshit anew! We should not let that happen. The posting histories of each and every regular spammer is already over there to peruse, so it's not like we don't know they're going to do the exact same thing here. The proactive war against defacement of community content should be given the highest priority at this time, even more priority than the contributions themselves. After all, defacement is the main reason Zoklet sunk into a shithole, so let's not let that happen here.
I agree with Spec but with some major concerns. Care must be taken to avoid the trampling of free speech by mods who can't separate their personal dislike of a poster from objectively moderating their area. I am against bans from the community period. I am also against forum bans. In place of these extreme measures which have already been seen to be ineffective at Zoklet, I would suggest the following.
If a user is trashing a conversation with kidiot \4\ style BS that adds absolutely nothing to the conversation the mod should be permitted to flag that user so that all of their posts must be approved in the forum they have violated. This way the user can still have their useful posts seen and read by the rest of the community and the community does not have to suffer their bullshit.
Again I must stress that this must not be abused by a mod who has a personal dislike of a given poster.
I think we all know by now what a spamming kidiot is. If we don't know what a kidiot is by now, then there's something seriously wrong with the community userbase itself. As was said, it not an issue of trying to make what you don't like to listen to go away, it's a matter of preventing defacement of the discussion forums.
I think we all know by now what a spamming kidiot is. If we don't know what a kidiot is by now, then there's something seriously wrong with the community userbase itself. As was said, it not an issue of trying to make what you don't like to listen to go away, it's a matter of preventing defacement of the discussion forums.
We both agree but a system must be used to ensure that human nature does not take it's natural course, as it did at Zoklet, when Mods take a personal dislike to another poster. Hell, over at Zoklet Mods will sit and wait for you to post in their area if you butt hurt them in another forum. Or they will come out of their little holes and trash your threads with their butt hurt and nothing is done to them by the globals or admins.
At least with my suggested solution in my last post a user is not banned from the entire community because of personal difference with one power hungry Mod. Also it allows for a permanent record of posts that were not approved to allow the admins the opportunity to spot abuses of this system should a Mod not approve a post simply because they disagree with it or it hurts their feelings.
I agree with Spec but with some major concerns. Care must be taken to avoid the trampling of free speech by mods who can't separate their personal dislike of a poster from objectively moderating their area. I am against bans from the community period. I am also against forum bans. In place of these extreme measures which have already been seen to be ineffective at Zoklet, I would suggest the following.
If a user is trashing a conversation with kidiot \4\ style BS that adds absolutely nothing to the conversation the mod should be permitted to flag that user so that all of their posts must be approved in the forum they have violated. This way the user can still have their useful posts seen and read by the rest of the community and the community does not have to suffer their bullshit.
Again I must stress that this must not be abused by a mod who has a personal dislike of a given poster.
I may post this as a suggestion...
Actually I have that system in place. We have a user group for bad users like FATTY and Big Bear, who abuse certain forum privileges. We move them to that group in order to give them time to cool down and stop being naughty. If a user on that list doesn't behave then we're forced to warn him and after that it's a ban.
But again these tools are just to teach a lesson. In the end the community has to force them our via collective thinking.
We both agree but a system must be used to ensure that human nature does not take it's natural course, as it did at Zoklet, when Mods take a personal dislike to another poster. Hell, over at Zoklet Mods will sit and wait for you to post in their area if you butt hurt them in another forum. Or they will come out of their little holes and trash your threads with their butt hurt and nothing is done to them by the globals or admins.
At least with my suggested solution in my last post a user is not banned from the entire community because of personal difference with one power hungry Mod. Also it allows for a permanent record of posts that were not approved to allow the admins the opportunity to spot abuses of this system should a Mod not approve a post simply because they disagree with it or it hurts their feelings.
I certainly agree. Perhaps the only moderators we should have are persons who have already shown restraint under fire in one situation or another... a situation where they could easily have abused an elevated position but chose not to. For example, when they tried to shit all over Dfg he could easily have deleted a bunch of valid content of the lackeys and fucked up a bunch of their legitimate threads almost beyond repair in several discussion-forums, but he didn't. Or Daguru... he could have come back and spammed the shit out of Zoklet under several identities and fucked up the legitimate threads of his persecutors royally in several discussion-forums, but he didn't. He let the situation speak for itself instead. That's why he's not posting here, because he thinks his very presence here will be disruptive to this fledgling Community... now if that ain't placing community welfare ahead of personal wants and personal agenda, I don't know what would be. There are several senior regulars who have already proved their stance by actions, or lack of them, and so it should not be all that difficult to isolate such ones for consideration as community leaders.
The 'unnaproved post' idea certainly is a good idea. I can however, forsee spam tards who get placed under this rule increasing the amount they post to tie up forum leaders in approving / unaproving.
In situations such as this those with the powers to should not feel bad about mass unapproving posts - it would act as an excellent educational tool - if someones shitty posts are not being made public, they will have to cool their jets and establish themself as a good poster - in my view everyone is welcome as long as they contribute something to the community.
None of this 'well the post I submitted made me laugh so it must be valid content'.
There will be disagreements about what is valid. I dont mind a picture or two as long as it is relevent - aslong as it has some kind of value. Spongebob and troll face do not.
If these do become a problem, make them smilies. As much as I hate them and cannot for the life of me remember the last time I used one, make it a smily and it will go away in some circumstances.
Very quickly we have seen people here go through forming, storming, norming and performing.
Part of the problem of zoklet was its inability to get past the storming stage. A food fight can be fun but messy. While its no bad thing once in a while, if all we see are food fights, thats all we will get.
Not till the poets among us can be
"literalists of
the imagination" - above
insolence and triviality and can present
for inspection "imaginary gardens with real
toads in them" shall we have
it.
I think the trick will be to address these issues before they can get any headway. Once you have twenty or thirty retards all spamming all the forums at once, then it gets really tough to address it without a lot of crying and whining and even more spamming from those same spamtards.
I think this place has a better ethos - this is a community as opposed to a website. To many mods at zoklet on post in their section. It just created a sense of utter futility - you cannot have openess, clarity and shared learning by using the PM system to resolve a problem. No precidence is set, the vast majority of people have no knowledge of a problem, let alone any solutions offered.
If we are to sing from the same song sheet, we all have to be able to see the words. Sure, we might all not keep in tune, but with enough voices it will even itself out.
That's a good suggestion, TDR. Might be a little tedious for the mods though, don't you think? I know it's not too much effort, but having to sift through reams of shit posted by someone being dumb to find the useful posts might put some people off of using the system properly.
Actually I have that system in place. We have a user group for bad users like FATTY and Big Bear, who abuse certain forum privileges. We move them to that group in order to give them time to cool down and stop being naughty. If a user on that list doesn't behave then we're forced to warn him and after that it's a ban.
But again these tools are just to teach a lesson. In the end the community has to force them our via collective thinking.
The collective thinking thing is great concept. But like we used to say in at the joints in Vegas whenever some n00b started talking about unionizing the dealers, "You can't even get two craps dealers to agree on what time it is." In other words when people are in daily RL contact it is difficult enough to create a sense of true unity. On website where no person truly has anything invested in their relations with others it will just never really happen.
Where so many fail when trying to "regulate" the "masses", such as most modern legislators, is they completely fail to account for simple human nature. While I applaud your efforts DFG I can't help thinking "What is really different about this approach vs the infraction system which is abused at Zoklet?"
If I understand your current approach correctly the only real difference is an intermediary step of censure before banning if behaviors don't self correct. Using my system we don't try to change human behavior we use it to the community's advantage. What I mean is as follows.
We have already seen at Totse and Zoklet that outright banning someone who is determined to derail threads with useless BS will not be deterred by a ban. In fact all the evidence shows this only serves to fuel them on to greater efforts using sock puppets. Why do they do this is what we should be examining. I hold that it is for the attention it draws to them. By censuring and then possibly banning them it only draws further attention to them as they kick and scream on their way out. Followed by even more attention as they spam with alts.
On the other hand if a user group were created for each forum that allowed a mod to review their posts prior to publishing in that forum it would play on that need for attention for the benefit of the community. How you ask. Well if they are only getting attention (replies) when their approved posts are published and not when their BS is left out of site then they will modify their own behavior in order to get the attention they seek. Also this would allow them to continue to post unfettered on other forums where they may be contributing in some way. If they simply decide to take their BS to another forum it is a simple matter for the mod of that forum to place them in the same high chair as the forum they already have restricted use of.
People are really not that hard to manage you just have to know what you can reasonably expect from them in a given situation.
I certainly agree. Perhaps the only moderators we should have are persons who have already shown restraint under fire in one situation or another... a situation where they could easily have abused an elevated position but chose not to. For example, when they tried to shit all over Dfg he could easily have deleted a bunch of valid content of the lackeys and fucked up a bunch of their legitimate threads almost beyond repair in several discussion-forums, but he didn't. Or Daguru... he could have come back and spammed the shit out of Zoklet under several identities and fucked up the legitimate threads of his persecutors royally in several discussion-forums, but he didn't. He let the situation speak for itself instead. That's why he's not posting here, because he thinks his very presence here will be disruptive to this fledgling Community... now if that ain't placing community welfare ahead of personal wants and personal agenda, I don't know what would be. There are several senior regulars who have already proved their stance by actions, or lack of them, and so it should not be all that difficult to isolate such ones for consideration as community leaders.
LOL So where does this idea leave Faglykai? It took less than 24 hours and getting owned in a few threads for him to lose his composure and throw his convictions to the wind. I suppose temper tantrums should be expected from someone so young and inexperienced at life, but what kind of example is he setting for the other moderators on the team? Even Dirty Sanchez, who I'm constantly at odds with had the class to answer a serious question I had in a serious forum without rancor. Perhaps Dirty Sanchez or another mod should take over Fanglkys forums for a week or two so he can shadow them and go through a "retraining" of sorts?
LOL So where does this idea leave Faglykai? It took less than 24 hours and getting owned in a few threads for him to lose his composure and throw his convictions to the wind. I suppose temper tantrums should be expected from someone so young and inexperienced at life, but what kind of example is he setting for the other moderators on the team? Even Dirty Sanchez, who I'm constantly at odds with had the class to answer a serious question I had in a serious forum without rancor. Perhaps Dirty Sanchez or another mod should take over Fanglkys forums for a week or two so he can shadow them and go through a "retraining" of sorts?
I saw the post by SquirtyManjiz you are referring to and you have a point. However I think it Fagleaky can learn from this and walk away with the lesson that his butt hurt is not grounds to censure users he will continue to be a good enough mod.
LOL So where does this idea leave Faglykai? It took less than 24 hours and getting owned in a few threads for him to lose his composure and throw his convictions to the wind. I suppose temper tantrums should be expected from someone so young and inexperienced at life, but what kind of example is he setting for the other moderators on the team? Even Dirty Sanchez, who I'm constantly at odds with had the class to answer a serious question I had in a serious forum without rancor. Perhaps Dirty Sanchez or another mod should take over Fanglkys forums for a week or two so he can shadow them and go through a "retraining" of sorts?
An option could be to just forget all the shit which went down, and start from scratch if new ideas are implemented. If it all happens again or someone else gets butthurt and makes a mess of their mod-powers, then they will suffer the consequences.
I guess people will just have to keep in check, and keep their cool despite being trolled into oblivion. We all know that you shouldn't feed the troll anyway
An option could be to just forget all the shit which went down, and start from scratch if new ideas are implemented. If it all happens again or someone else gets butthurt and makes a mess of their mod-powers, then they will suffer the consequences.
I guess people will just have to keep in check, and keep their cool despite being trolled into oblivion. We all know that you shouldn't feed the troll anyway
Folks what we have here is a decent core staff that may lack some experience. trx100 is one of the staffers, along with DFG and some others who actually get it. With their guidance the inexperience can be easily overcome if they are willing to learn and perhaps swallow a small amount of pride at the times they make the inevitable mistakes that learning often requires.
I admit that I had no small part in Fagleaky losing his cool but the funny thing was I was aiming at SquirtyManjiz the entire time. At no time did I really have any ill will towards Fagleaky but he entered the fray while the game was in full swing. I debated about whether or not to post here after I made my final point at Zoklet. I wondered if it would just turn into more angry kids with access to extra buttons.
So before I spent 3 months trying to contribute, as I did early 09 at Zoklet, I decided to test the waters hard and fast by fucking with SqurityManjiz. Why him you ask. Well for starters his ideologies are ridiculous and quite easy to toy with and secondly he is really easy to wind up. I have to admit that throughout it he never once hinted at abusing his position in spite of the butt hurt I caused him. I know that my methods are extreme but at my age time is not something you waste when results are easily available. Yes, that is slightly Machiavellian, but when push comes to shove that is how I roll IRL too. If I feel the results of my unpopular action have the potential to create a greater good I will happily wear the black hat while others toss their rotten vegetables in my direction.
So take it for what it is or hate me but good still came of this as the community has a chance to learn and grow in a positive direction as result of the reactions to my little game.
I know that my methods are extreme but at my age time is not something you waste when results are easily available.
So take it for what it is or hate me but good still came of this as the community has a chance to learn and grow in a positive direction as result of the reactions to my little game.
Keep telling yourself that ...
You acted like a child.
I hope you won't do that anymore, and that's all I have to say about that.
About failtrolls: I'm a huge fan of kicking failtroll posts in the trashcan. Free speech + uncluttering threads.
The "awaiting approval" method is also a good idea. If they then flood the mods with posts awaiting approval their posts just won't get approved. No harm done to anyone but themselves.
^ Awaiting approval to speak like a child raising their hand waiting to be called on by the teacher? That kind of speech doesn't seem free to me. I think the whole idea of all of this is a disgrace to the temple as a whole and actually I'm offended that banning for being a fail troll is even being considered.
I say let them post whatever they want. If they annoy you just ignore them, we have that option for a reason. Lets not get ban crazy just because some people are annoying. If they actually break the few rules we have follow the ones agreed on set for these reasons and circumstances.
^ Awaiting approval to speak like a child raising their hand waiting to be called on by the teacher? That kind of speech doesn't seem free to me. I think the whole idea of all of this is a disgrace to the temple as a whole and actually I'm offended that banning for being a fail troll is even being considered.
I say let them post whatever they want. If they annoy you just ignore them, we have that option for a reason. Lets not get ban crazy just because some people are annoying. If they actually break the few rules we have follow the ones agreed on set for these reasons and circumstances.
Keep in mind at least for me a fail troll isn't Fatty or DarkRodent. I'm talking about the people who post a one liner in a specialized forum and simply refuse to add anything of worth. An example is when Big Bear posted a thread that only said something like "suck my cock slave". It's people who post threads like that in the serious discussion forums that need to stop before it gets out of hand. That kind of stuff. It's annoying and stupid. Also if a mod bans someone out of butthurt or starts zoklet style bannings they should be demodded.
I say let them post whatever they want. If they annoy you just ignore them, we have that option for a reason. Lets not get ban crazy just because some people are annoying. If they actually break the few rules we have follow the ones agreed on set for these reasons and circumstances.
I disagree. There is no reason why we should allow true e-vandalism. It hasn't happened yet, but if an annoying group of people decides to fill every thread of this forum with pages full of failtrolling somebody needs to do something about it.
and how you could possibly know why another person does what they do on a forum?
I don't care why you did it. I judge people by their actions, not by their intentions. Hitler wanted to create a paradise. Should we praise him for it? (on the off chance that you're sympathizing with Hitler you can replace him with Mao, Stalin, Idi Amin Dada and just about every other politician)
I stand by what I said: You acted like a child and I hope you won't do it again.
I don't care why you did it. I judge people by their actions, not by their intentions. Hitler wanted to create a paradise. Should we praise him for it? (on the off chance that you're sympathizing with Hitler you can replace him with Mao, Stalin, Idi Amin Dada and just about every other politician)
I stand by what I said: You acted like a child and I hope you won't do it again.
Read my post, I don't care if it was popular with you it served a good purpose. So go iron out your panties and get back to me when they are not wedged to tightly in the crack of your snatch.
Read my post, I don't care if it was popular with you it served a good purpose. So go iron out your panties and get back to me when they are not wedged to tightly in the crack of your snatch.
Oh, I've read 'em all. The fact that you're replying to my posts with such anger is only one of the several signs that you secretly hoped we'd all realise you saved the future of this forum, nay, the whole world wide web and would praise you for it. If you really didn't care you just wouldn't care and wouldn't have bothered to reply to my first post in this thread.
So in other words just some shit who uses different names to be cool on the internuts.
I dunno, why do you?
:facepalm:
Oh, I've read 'em all.
That is nice you must be a really big fan. But you still need to get in line and pay for an autograph just like everyone else.
The fact that you're replying to my posts with such anger is only one of the several signs that you secretly hoped we'd all realise you saved the future of this forum
Another interwebz psycho erm psychic eh? So pray tell Madam Numbnutz what other mysterious signs do you see and how do you read them. What you read as anger is really just my way of saying fuck off.
, nay, the whole world wide web and would praise you for it. If you really didn't care you just wouldn't care and wouldn't have bothered to reply to my first post in this thread.
You can only say how you would react if you didn't really care. It is impossible for you to project how someone you have zero knowledge of would react to anything.
Thanks for playing but Halloween is not until October or is there another reason you mask yourself with "online alter ego's"?
A) We shouldn't ban users because it only creates more butt hurt which is true. According to the guide-book Mods only ban users if things are critical. Granted I banned FATTY but it was only for 12 hours and I will reverse it shortly. Plus, I wanted him to cool down and let me work out a way to fix this issue. I don't like restricting speech and regardless of the methods we can't delete and remove posts. But if some users is being an asshole and is bend of destroying a thread or a section we can move him to the bad users group and all his posts will be moderated than or posts in serious sections will be moderated. In a way, FATTY who is already in that user group can't posts BS in Serious section. In this way he has to earn him way into those sections.
I find this method a lot easier and practical since we're not banning users and only a small subset of problematic users are being restricted. Again, only Admins can place those users in that group. So, someone has to really push users [not mods] buttons to earn that rank.
I value this community mods but in the end I have to bow down to the users, it's not the I don't trust them it's just power corrupts and we're still quite young. I honestly don't mind if fangle and TDR fight and bitch in B&M all day long and try to kill each other, my only concern is that no one abuses forum functions and goes rogue.
I want the mods and users here to level up and beat the shit out of trolls or make them troll like quality trolls. When someone just ignore a shitty troll and lets him run around for while he usually loses steam and if he shits in serious section the mods will take care of it. The user would get plenty of warnings before anything happens to them.
On totse we have a direct ban system. It means we don't fuck around with points. You screw up after getting a warning you're banned. Period. Since this system is direct and if abused can really make people mad, a mod would be careful to touch those buttons.
So, far the mod team haven't banned a single user. I review all the bans and if a mod doesn't follow the correct protocol I would reverse the ban or warning. Yes, I do agree it limits mods power, but we're not here to make power-hungry mods. Consider this your home and we're family here. Would you banish your brothers like this?
Yes, we do have some solid guidelines that result in elimination of a threat. We have 4 active users with global mods powers [trx110,Mayberry,LSA King, Bk]. If anything happens they're usually able to handle things.
Again, I want hell to break loose and see what comes out of it. When I say I don't mind bitching and negative feedback, I mean I just observing things and making plans to avert those things in future.
TL;DR:
Make the already created user group [bad users] more restricted and enable moderation of posts in serious section. If the user shows signs of improvements and doesn't act like an idiot move him to the old users group. If he fucks up and doesn't listen keep him in that user group.
If you want to post freely, you need to earn your keep and become a contributing member on totse. Contributing = A user who values this places and do his best to support and post here.
^That method of control is quite agreeable at this point, but eventually when we do get bigger, it'll be harder to handle troublemakers one on one. We're fine for now, but it'll be good to keep that in mind and keep ideas coming as we go along.
Failtroll posts are fine if not spammed all over the place. One or two failtrolls here and there or even the occasional failtroll post by established members helps keep the air moving. It's when these posts are everywhere that it ruins any good conversation to be had here.
Man, Zok and his little cock huggin' crew could learn volumes about how to run a community from this thread... good show guys...
He could do, but he really doesn't deserve it. He's had his chance to run the show, and it's clear that he made a complete fuck up of it. This place FTW
Either your parents named you The Dark Rodent and you really look like a dog carrying a lightsaber or you know exactly why I won't use my real name.
Who said anything about anyone using their real name?
But what really intrigues me is how my parents possibly naming me The Dark Rodent coupled with my appearance is mutually exclusive to me knowing why you choose to hide behind many "online alter ego's". I mean let's say the my name on my certificate of live birth is Rodent, Dark The and I actually look like a dog carrying a light saber. How would those to facts prevent me from knowing why you choose to duck and dodge on the internet.
P-R-I-V-A-C-Y : "The ability of an individual or group to seclude themselves or information about themselves and thereby reveal themselves selectively."
P-R-I-V-A-C-Y : "The ability of an individual or group to seclude themselves or information about themselves and thereby reveal themselves selectively."
P-R-I-V-A-C-Y : "The ability of an individual or group to seclude themselves or information about themselves and thereby reveal themselves selectively."
Privacy is not furthered by using multiple accounts and "online alter egos". We all use handles to hide a real names and locations. Why do you feel the need to hide behind multiple accounts?
BTW: Do you realize that your reply had nothing to do with the questions posed in my post which you quoted? So you might need a new spelling book soon.
Privacy is not furthered by using multiple accounts and "online alter egos". We all use handles to hide a real names and locations. Why do you feel the need to hide behind multiple accounts?
My privacy is increased by using a different name on each website because that way you don't know what other websites I frequent. Duh.
BTW: Do you realize that your reply had nothing to do with the questions posed in my post which you quoted?
Do you realise that it was an answer to the cited question, which after all was your initial question? As you seemed to have failed to understand my first answer I tried answering it again. If you had understood my initial answer you would realise that it is because of privacy reasons that I use multiple online alter ego's. You see, I assumed (and still do) The Dark Rodent is not your real name and you do not really look like a dog carrying a lightsaber. Which means you like to protect your privacy too. Which would imply you can understand why I like to protect mine. Now if The Dark Rodent really was your name and you would really look like a dog carrying a lightsaber you would have to be one of those very few people who do not understand privacy is a good thing, because if you - still assuming you're really named The Dark Rodent and look like a dog carrying a lightsaber - understood that, you would have chosen a different username and avatar.
Do I really have to explain everything like I would if I were talking to a six year old? I thought somebody of your age and wisdom would be able to put two and two together all by himself. Do you have some form of autism maybe?
My privacy is increased by using a different name on each website because that way you don't know what other websites I frequent. Duh.
Do you realise that it was an answer to the cited question, which after all was your initial question? As you seemed to have failed to understand my first answer I tried answering it again. If you had understood my initial answer you would realise that it is because of privacy reasons that I use multiple online alter ego's. You see, I assumed (and still do) The Dark Rodent is not your real name and you do not really look like a dog carrying a lightsaber. Which means you like to protect your privacy too. Which would imply you can understand why I like to protect mine. Now if The Dark Rodent really was your name and you would really look like a dog carrying a lightsaber you would have to be one of those very few people who do not understand privacy is a good thing, because if you - still assuming you're really named The Dark Rodent and look like a dog carrying a lightsaber - understood that, you would have chosen a different username and avatar.
Do I really have to explain everything like I would if I were talking to a six year old? I thought somebody of your age and wisdom would be able to put two and two together all by himself. Do you have some form of autism maybe?
There now that is all I was really looking for was some effort on your part. Thanks for the wall of text.
LOL So where does this idea leave Faglykai? It took less than 24 hours and getting owned in a few threads for him to lose his composure and throw his convictions to the wind. I suppose temper tantrums should be expected from someone so young and inexperienced at life, but what kind of example is he setting for the other moderators on the team? Even Dirty Sanchez, who I'm constantly at odds with had the class to answer a serious question I had in a serious forum without rancor. Perhaps Dirty Sanchez or another mod should take over Fanglkys forums for a week or two so he can shadow them and go through a "retraining" of sorts?
You and TDR spam up the forum with worthless posting, and then you act all indignant when I refuse to respond to you seriously. It's laughable that either of you demand anyone to be serious or to make serious replies. I wasn't ever butthurt. I was laughing at you both for all this feigned indignation that came up all of a sudden when I decided it'd be lulzy to post how you both post in every other thread you've both ever posted in.
You both can contribute to the forum, as you've evidenced in this thread, yet you chose to make failposts and one liners in serious sections. It's time to stop the failtrolling and contribute. Now everyone knows you both can contribute, so do it.
I wanted to stir up the community into discussing this situation. It was time to hear some opinions on the matter so things won't get out of hand. I'm glad a lot of people have replied, and I'm glad that both of you have finally decided to post serious replies. Hopefully you'll remember this thread as a lesson and be better members here.
Comments
But as TDR mentioned the mod team is young. I am pretty much used to flame and bitches but the new mods on Totse aren't and they need some encounters like these to help them grow.
I am not an idiot and I will not follow a path that will eventually harm the community. If required we can do the above steps but in a controlled manner. Remember mods are here to remove stuff like cp etc and manage the forums without using force. Mods need to learn to deal with users such as TDR [whom I know is having some fun] without using the buttons.
Consider this a test, and try to learn from it and find a way that would be suitable for everyone.
Fang thanks for making this thread.
See, now DFG gets it. I can now resume my normal programing and perhaps even start to make some contributions in areas that actually interest me. Other than fucking with SqurtyManjiz until I find another toy that is so easy to wind up.
Your little butt buddy SqurtyManjiz is gonna be upset if you get to play with the button and he does not.
LOL did you get your button reversed?
If a user is trashing a conversation with kidiot \4\ style BS that adds absolutely nothing to the conversation the mod should be permitted to flag that user so that all of their posts must be approved in the forum they have violated. This way the user can still have their useful posts seen and read by the rest of the community and the community does not have to suffer their bullshit.
Again I must stress that this must not be abused by a mod who has a personal dislike of a given poster.
I may post this as a suggestion...
We both agree but a system must be used to ensure that human nature does not take it's natural course, as it did at Zoklet, when Mods take a personal dislike to another poster. Hell, over at Zoklet Mods will sit and wait for you to post in their area if you butt hurt them in another forum. Or they will come out of their little holes and trash your threads with their butt hurt and nothing is done to them by the globals or admins.
At least with my suggested solution in my last post a user is not banned from the entire community because of personal difference with one power hungry Mod. Also it allows for a permanent record of posts that were not approved to allow the admins the opportunity to spot abuses of this system should a Mod not approve a post simply because they disagree with it or it hurts their feelings.
Actually I have that system in place. We have a user group for bad users like FATTY and Big Bear, who abuse certain forum privileges. We move them to that group in order to give them time to cool down and stop being naughty. If a user on that list doesn't behave then we're forced to warn him and after that it's a ban.
But again these tools are just to teach a lesson. In the end the community has to force them our via collective thinking.
In situations such as this those with the powers to should not feel bad about mass unapproving posts - it would act as an excellent educational tool - if someones shitty posts are not being made public, they will have to cool their jets and establish themself as a good poster - in my view everyone is welcome as long as they contribute something to the community.
None of this 'well the post I submitted made me laugh so it must be valid content'.
There will be disagreements about what is valid. I dont mind a picture or two as long as it is relevent - aslong as it has some kind of value. Spongebob and troll face do not.
If these do become a problem, make them smilies. As much as I hate them and cannot for the life of me remember the last time I used one, make it a smily and it will go away in some circumstances.
Very quickly we have seen people here go through forming, storming, norming and performing.
Part of the problem of zoklet was its inability to get past the storming stage. A food fight can be fun but messy. While its no bad thing once in a while, if all we see are food fights, thats all we will get.
Not till the poets among us can be
"literalists of
the imagination" - above
insolence and triviality and can present
for inspection "imaginary gardens with real
toads in them" shall we have
it.
I think the trick will be to address these issues before they can get any headway. Once you have twenty or thirty retards all spamming all the forums at once, then it gets really tough to address it without a lot of crying and whining and even more spamming from those same spamtards.
If we are to sing from the same song sheet, we all have to be able to see the words. Sure, we might all not keep in tune, but with enough voices it will even itself out.
The collective thinking thing is great concept. But like we used to say in at the joints in Vegas whenever some n00b started talking about unionizing the dealers, "You can't even get two craps dealers to agree on what time it is." In other words when people are in daily RL contact it is difficult enough to create a sense of true unity. On website where no person truly has anything invested in their relations with others it will just never really happen.
Where so many fail when trying to "regulate" the "masses", such as most modern legislators, is they completely fail to account for simple human nature. While I applaud your efforts DFG I can't help thinking "What is really different about this approach vs the infraction system which is abused at Zoklet?"
If I understand your current approach correctly the only real difference is an intermediary step of censure before banning if behaviors don't self correct. Using my system we don't try to change human behavior we use it to the community's advantage. What I mean is as follows.
We have already seen at Totse and Zoklet that outright banning someone who is determined to derail threads with useless BS will not be deterred by a ban. In fact all the evidence shows this only serves to fuel them on to greater efforts using sock puppets. Why do they do this is what we should be examining. I hold that it is for the attention it draws to them. By censuring and then possibly banning them it only draws further attention to them as they kick and scream on their way out. Followed by even more attention as they spam with alts.
On the other hand if a user group were created for each forum that allowed a mod to review their posts prior to publishing in that forum it would play on that need for attention for the benefit of the community. How you ask. Well if they are only getting attention (replies) when their approved posts are published and not when their BS is left out of site then they will modify their own behavior in order to get the attention they seek. Also this would allow them to continue to post unfettered on other forums where they may be contributing in some way. If they simply decide to take their BS to another forum it is a simple matter for the mod of that forum to place them in the same high chair as the forum they already have restricted use of.
People are really not that hard to manage you just have to know what you can reasonably expect from them in a given situation.
LOL So where does this idea leave Faglykai? It took less than 24 hours and getting owned in a few threads for him to lose his composure and throw his convictions to the wind. I suppose temper tantrums should be expected from someone so young and inexperienced at life, but what kind of example is he setting for the other moderators on the team? Even Dirty Sanchez, who I'm constantly at odds with had the class to answer a serious question I had in a serious forum without rancor. Perhaps Dirty Sanchez or another mod should take over Fanglkys forums for a week or two so he can shadow them and go through a "retraining" of sorts?
I saw the post by SquirtyManjiz you are referring to and you have a point. However I think it Fagleaky can learn from this and walk away with the lesson that his butt hurt is not grounds to censure users he will continue to be a good enough mod.
An option could be to just forget all the shit which went down, and start from scratch if new ideas are implemented. If it all happens again or someone else gets butthurt and makes a mess of their mod-powers, then they will suffer the consequences.
I guess people will just have to keep in check, and keep their cool despite being trolled into oblivion. We all know that you shouldn't feed the troll anyway
Folks what we have here is a decent core staff that may lack some experience. trx100 is one of the staffers, along with DFG and some others who actually get it. With their guidance the inexperience can be easily overcome if they are willing to learn and perhaps swallow a small amount of pride at the times they make the inevitable mistakes that learning often requires.
I admit that I had no small part in Fagleaky losing his cool but the funny thing was I was aiming at SquirtyManjiz the entire time. At no time did I really have any ill will towards Fagleaky but he entered the fray while the game was in full swing. I debated about whether or not to post here after I made my final point at Zoklet. I wondered if it would just turn into more angry kids with access to extra buttons.
So before I spent 3 months trying to contribute, as I did early 09 at Zoklet, I decided to test the waters hard and fast by fucking with SqurityManjiz. Why him you ask. Well for starters his ideologies are ridiculous and quite easy to toy with and secondly he is really easy to wind up. I have to admit that throughout it he never once hinted at abusing his position in spite of the butt hurt I caused him. I know that my methods are extreme but at my age time is not something you waste when results are easily available. Yes, that is slightly Machiavellian, but when push comes to shove that is how I roll IRL too. If I feel the results of my unpopular action have the potential to create a greater good I will happily wear the black hat while others toss their rotten vegetables in my direction.
So take it for what it is or hate me but good still came of this as the community has a chance to learn and grow in a positive direction as result of the reactions to my little game.
Keep telling yourself that ...
You acted like a child.
I hope you won't do that anymore, and that's all I have to say about that.
About failtrolls: I'm a huge fan of kicking failtroll posts in the trashcan. Free speech + uncluttering threads.
The "awaiting approval" method is also a good idea. If they then flood the mods with posts awaiting approval their posts just won't get approved. No harm done to anyone but themselves.
I say let them post whatever they want. If they annoy you just ignore them, we have that option for a reason. Lets not get ban crazy just because some people are annoying. If they actually break the few rules we have follow the ones agreed on set for these reasons and circumstances.
Remind me again, who you are and how you could possibly know why another person does what they do on a forum?
Keep in mind at least for me a fail troll isn't Fatty or DarkRodent. I'm talking about the people who post a one liner in a specialized forum and simply refuse to add anything of worth. An example is when Big Bear posted a thread that only said something like "suck my cock slave". It's people who post threads like that in the serious discussion forums that need to stop before it gets out of hand. That kind of stuff. It's annoying and stupid. Also if a mod bans someone out of butthurt or starts zoklet style bannings they should be demodded.
You've got a point. Scratch the "awaiting approval" idea.
I disagree. There is no reason why we should allow true e-vandalism. It hasn't happened yet, but if an annoying group of people decides to fill every thread of this forum with pages full of failtrolling somebody needs to do something about it.
Amie, says above every single one of my 246 posts
I don't care why you did it. I judge people by their actions, not by their intentions. Hitler wanted to create a paradise. Should we praise him for it? (on the off chance that you're sympathizing with Hitler you can replace him with Mao, Stalin, Idi Amin Dada and just about every other politician)
I stand by what I said: You acted like a child and I hope you won't do it again.
Who the fuck is Amie and why do I give a shit what you think?
Read my post, I don't care if it was popular with you it served a good purpose. So go iron out your panties and get back to me when they are not wedged to tightly in the crack of your snatch.
I dunno, why do you?
Oh, I've read 'em all. The fact that you're replying to my posts with such anger is only one of the several signs that you secretly hoped we'd all realise you saved the future of this forum, nay, the whole world wide web and would praise you for it. If you really didn't care you just wouldn't care and wouldn't have bothered to reply to my first post in this thread.
So in other words just some shit who uses different names to be cool on the internuts.
:facepalm:
That is nice you must be a really big fan. But you still need to get in line and pay for an autograph just like everyone else.
Another interwebz psycho erm psychic eh? So pray tell Madam Numbnutz what other mysterious signs do you see and how do you read them. What you read as anger is really just my way of saying fuck off.
You can only say how you would react if you didn't really care. It is impossible for you to project how someone you have zero knowledge of would react to anything.
Thanks for playing but Halloween is not until October or is there another reason you mask yourself with "online alter ego's"?
A) We shouldn't ban users because it only creates more butt hurt which is true. According to the guide-book Mods only ban users if things are critical. Granted I banned FATTY but it was only for 12 hours and I will reverse it shortly. Plus, I wanted him to cool down and let me work out a way to fix this issue.
I find this method a lot easier and practical since we're not banning users and only a small subset of problematic users are being restricted. Again, only Admins can place those users in that group. So, someone has to really push users [not mods] buttons to earn that rank.
I value this community mods but in the end I have to bow down to the users, it's not the I don't trust them it's just power corrupts and we're still quite young. I honestly don't mind if fangle and TDR fight and bitch in B&M all day long and try to kill each other, my only concern is that no one abuses forum functions and goes rogue.
I want the mods and users here to level up and beat the shit out of trolls or make them troll like quality trolls. When someone just ignore a shitty troll and lets him run around for while he usually loses steam and if he shits in serious section the mods will take care of it. The user would get plenty of warnings before anything happens to them.
On totse we have a direct ban system. It means we don't fuck around with points. You screw up after getting a warning you're banned. Period. Since this system is direct and if abused can really make people mad, a mod would be careful to touch those buttons.
So, far the mod team haven't banned a single user. I review all the bans and if a mod doesn't follow the correct protocol I would reverse the ban or warning. Yes, I do agree it limits mods power, but we're not here to make power-hungry mods. Consider this your home and we're family here. Would you banish your brothers like this?
Yes, we do have some solid guidelines that result in elimination of a threat. We have 4 active users with global mods powers [trx110,Mayberry,LSA King, Bk]. If anything happens they're usually able to handle things.
Again, I want hell to break loose and see what comes out of it. When I say I don't mind bitching and negative feedback, I mean I just observing things and making plans to avert those things in future.
TL;DR:
Make the already created user group [bad users] more restricted and enable moderation of posts in serious section. If the user shows signs of improvements and doesn't act like an idiot move him to the old users group. If he fucks up and doesn't listen keep him in that user group.
If you want to post freely, you need to earn your keep and become a contributing member on totse. Contributing = A user who values this places and do his best to support and post here.
Failtroll posts are fine if not spammed all over the place. One or two failtrolls here and there or even the occasional failtroll post by established members helps keep the air moving. It's when these posts are everywhere that it ruins any good conversation to be had here.
He could do, but he really doesn't deserve it. He's had his chance to run the show, and it's clear that he made a complete fuck up of it. This place FTW
Either your parents named you The Dark Rodent and you really look like a dog carrying a lightsaber or you know exactly why I won't use my real name.
Who said anything about anyone using their real name?
But what really intrigues me is how my parents possibly naming me The Dark Rodent coupled with my appearance is mutually exclusive to me knowing why you choose to hide behind many "online alter ego's". I mean let's say the my name on my certificate of live birth is Rodent, Dark The and I actually look like a dog carrying a light saber. How would those to facts prevent me from knowing why you choose to duck and dodge on the internet.
OK, let me spell it out for you.
P-R-I-V-A-C-Y : "The ability of an individual or group to seclude themselves or information about themselves and thereby reveal themselves selectively."
You could use a proxy.
Privacy is not furthered by using multiple accounts and "online alter egos". We all use handles to hide a real names and locations. Why do you feel the need to hide behind multiple accounts?
BTW: Do you realize that your reply had nothing to do with the questions posed in my post which you quoted? So you might need a new spelling book soon.
Do you realise that it was an answer to the cited question, which after all was your initial question? As you seemed to have failed to understand my first answer I tried answering it again. If you had understood my initial answer you would realise that it is because of privacy reasons that I use multiple online alter ego's. You see, I assumed (and still do) The Dark Rodent is not your real name and you do not really look like a dog carrying a lightsaber. Which means you like to protect your privacy too. Which would imply you can understand why I like to protect mine. Now if The Dark Rodent really was your name and you would really look like a dog carrying a lightsaber you would have to be one of those very few people who do not understand privacy is a good thing, because if you - still assuming you're really named The Dark Rodent and look like a dog carrying a lightsaber - understood that, you would have chosen a different username and avatar.
Do I really have to explain everything like I would if I were talking to a six year old? I thought somebody of your age and wisdom would be able to put two and two together all by himself. Do you have some form of autism maybe?
There now that is all I was really looking for was some effort on your part. Thanks for the wall of text.
P.S. TL/DR
Still acting as a child, I see. "Oeeeh, soooo much text, a whole PARAGRAPH! No Way I'm reading all of THAT."
You both can contribute to the forum, as you've evidenced in this thread, yet you chose to make failposts and one liners in serious sections. It's time to stop the failtrolling and contribute. Now everyone knows you both can contribute, so do it.
I wanted to stir up the community into discussing this situation. It was time to hear some opinions on the matter so things won't get out of hand. I'm glad a lot of people have replied, and I'm glad that both of you have finally decided to post serious replies. Hopefully you'll remember this thread as a lesson and be better members here.