Legality of Sodium Cyanide — Totseans

Legality of Sodium Cyanide

buddhabuddha Regular
edited August 2011 in Spurious Generalities
This conversation was taken from a reported thread, the user should be banned because he is a spam bot NOT for selling "Illegal drugs"
buddha wrote: »
Cyanide is not illegal just fyi

it is also not a drug lol
buddha wrote: »
What is that?
Read it FFS :facepalm:

It is the US law regarding Cyanide.
buddha wrote: »
What part of that would you like me to click on?
buddha wrote: »
That law only prohibits its use in "predator control devices" like pepper spray type of things.

I'm telling you it a'int illegal to have or sell.
Do you have a copy of Blacks Law Dictionary? Are you an attorney?

When you read a statute you can not apply the definition to words that you find in Websters. They simply do not apply in a court of law. You must define the words using a law dictionary and Blacks is the accepted standard in the U.S.

I actually do now have a copy of Black's 9th edition, and asking if I am an attorney is a little silly when you yourself are also not an attorney.

My argument is, in this law...
111TH CONGRESS
2D SESSION
H. R. 5643
To amend the Toxic Substances Control Act to prohibit the use, production,
sale, importation, or exportation of the poison sodium fluoroacetate
(known as ‘‘Compound 1080’’) and to prohibit the use of sodium cyanide
for predator control.
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
JUNE 30, 2010
Mr. DEFAZIO (for himself, Mr. CAMPBELL, Mr. GEORGE MILLER of California, Mr. GRIJALVA, Mr. HINCHEY, Mr. MORAN of Virginia, Mr.
MCGOVERN, Mrs. MALONEY, Ms. MCCOLLUM, Mr. TIERNEY, Mr. SMITH
of Washington, and Mr. KUCINICH) introduced the following bill; which
was referred to the Committee on Energy and Commerce, and in addition
to the Committee on the Judiciary, for a period to be subsequently determined by the Speaker, in each case for consideration of such provisions
as fall within the jurisdiction of the committee concerned
A BILL
To amend the Toxic Substances Control Act to prohibit
the use, production, sale, importation, or exportation of
the poison sodium fluoroacetate (known as ‘‘Compound
1080’’) and to prohibit the use of sodium cyanide for
predator control.
1 Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representa-
2 tives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
VerDate Mar 15 2010 23:09 Jul 01, 2010 Jkt 089200 PO 00000 Frm 00001 Fmt 6652 Sfmt 6201 E:\BILLS\H5643.IH H5643
srobinson on DSKHWCL6B1PROD with BILLS2
•HR 5643 IH
1 SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
2 This Act may be cited as the ‘‘Compound 1080 and
3 Sodium Cyanide Elimination Act’’.
4 SEC. 2. PROHIBITION ON USE, PRODUCTION, SALE, IMPOR-
5 TATION, OR EXPORTATION OF COMPOUND
6 1080.
7 Section 6 of the Toxic Substances Control Act (15
8 U.S.C. 2605) is amended by adding at the end the fol-
9 lowing new subsection:
10 ‘‘(g) COMPOUND 1080.—The use, production, sale,
11 importation, or exportation of sodium fluoroacetate
12 (known as ‘Compound 1080’) is prohibited. Any person
13 who violates this subsection shall be fined under title 18,
14 United States Code, or imprisoned not more than 2 years,
15 or both.’’.
16 SEC. 3. PROHIBITION ON USE OF SODIUM CYANIDE FOR
17 PREDATOR CONTROL.
18 (a) PROHIBITED ACT.—Sodium cyanide may not be
19 used in a predator control device.
20 (b) PENALTY.—Whoever uses sodium cyanide in a
21 predator control device shall be fined under title 18,
22 United States Code, or imprisoned not more than 2 years,
23 or both.
24 (c) PREDATOR CONTROL DEVICE.—In this section,
25 the term ‘‘predator control device’’ means—
VerDate Mar 15 2010 23:09 Jul 01, 2010 Jkt 089200 PO 00000 Frm 00002 Fmt 6652 Sfmt 6201 E:\BILLS\H5643.IH H5643
srobinson on DSKHWCL6B1PROD with BILLS3
•HR 5643 IH
1 (1) a dispenser designed to propel sodium cya-
2 nide when activated by an animal; and
3 (2) any other means of dispensing sodium cya-
4 nide, including in the form of sodium cyanide cap-
5 sules, for wildlife management or other animal con-
6 trol purposes

that you linked to.

PROHIBITION ON USE, PRODUCTION, SALE, IMPOR-
5 TATION, OR EXPORTATION OF COMPOUND
6 1080. (sodium fluoroacetate)

and the second part of it...

PROHIBITION ON USE OF SODIUM CYANIDE FOR
17 PREDATOR CONTROL.

are two seperate things, you can't apply the ban on sodium flouroacetate, to cyanide in the second part.

If cyanide was outright banned why do they just mention using it in "predator control devices" seems kind of silly.

Better throw away your table salt before the FBI shows up, since it contains cyanide, (as an anti caking agent)

How do you guys interpret this?

Because I don't really see how you can interpret this law to include a complete ban on cyanide. Also if it was included it would have been listed on line 6.

Comments

  • Darth BeaverDarth Beaver Meine Ehre heißt Treue
    edited August 2011
    Try buying it without the proper permits and report yourself to the Federal Authorities. Afterwards let us know how that worked out for you.
  • buddhabuddha Regular
    edited August 2011
    Sure thing, would you like me to buy it from one of the thousands of reputable medical suppliers, or just any ol chemical supply company?

    I thought you had errands to run?
  • buddhabuddha Regular
    edited August 2011
    Try buying it without the proper permits and report yourself to the Federal Authorities. Afterwards let us know how that worked out for you.

    Please show me which permit I need to apply for to be able to buy it?
  • Darth BeaverDarth Beaver Meine Ehre heißt Treue
    edited August 2011
    Go ahead and buy it. Report yourself the the FBI and get back to me.
  • LSA KingLSA King Regular
    edited August 2011
    Try buying a 5lb bag of castor beans online and see how long it takes DHS and the FBI to come knocking after you click "Order".
  • dr rockerdr rocker Regular
    edited August 2011
    C'mon, you know what the outcome of that would be. He would get a visit and that would be it. If I telephoned the firearms control officer in my area and said

    'Hey, guess what nitrates I have a hold of. I have XXX nitrate and XXX nitrate'

    it would not be unexpected for my door to be kicked in at 0530. When they could see I had a legitimate reason for holding them - preserving meat I would more than likely get a charge for wasting police time and have to pay myself to have my door fixed. They would probably also confiscate the chemicals due to me showing I was not a responsible adult by making a stupid telephone call.

    I do understand by what you mean above around what legal words mean - in this day and age, many words have many meanings, but under the law, they are all defined. Normal words confuse the fuck out of the layman when they are applied in legal ways. Explaining something like Tort to the layman and you know how hard it is. However, the above law prohobits one chemical and restricts another. At first glance at the legislation, it appears to me to be a 'tag on'. When law is being scrutinised in the USA it can have additions made to it that if no objection is made to them, they will remain in the final bill that goes to the vote.

    Its a tecnique that is used to get what seem like trivial matters votes through by adding them to a bill that people feel strongly about, or as a tactic to get people to actually vote against something that they would vote for - for example, a bill had been put forward to enact law X. It goes through many stages and some one who is oppsed to law X then adds on caveat Y in the hope it will not be scrutinised properly before a vote is taken, in the hope that when the vote comes, caveat Y has such strong feelings against it the whole bill is voted against.

    In the instance above, it just seems to be a fast way to get legislation through. Sure, it is poor legislation. Ideally, any law should be on a single subject so it can be fully understood. I know how stupid some of the MP's in the UK are, its probably the same with your houses.

    Maybe you could call the FBI and ask them what the law is, what they consider a reasonable amount for what legitimate reasons to hold it and what not. To alay an suspicion of potential wrong doing, hook them up to this thread to show an interest exists and you are not some loon. Shit, get them on teamspeak. Record the convo and post the file here.
  • buddhabuddha Regular
    edited August 2011
    LSA King wrote: »
    Try buying a 5lb bag of castor beans online and see how long it takes DHS and the FBI to come knocking after you click "Order".



    ^That, would be a bad idea.
  • dr rockerdr rocker Regular
    edited August 2011
    LSA King wrote: »
    Try buying a 5lb bag of castor beans online and see how long it takes DHS and the FBI to come knocking after you click "Order".

    Thats a fact. Its about amount and legitimate reasons. How many farmers get visits even tho they have a reason for holding ferts? Loads. The FBI come and check its a legit farming operation.

    I have been in growshops on two occasions when cops have come in and asked about people buying large amounts of peroxide. They have not given a fuck that the place reeked of weed and that all of the customers were probably home growers - the opposite in fact - they took the time to talk to people, explain why they were more interested in people who were buying a lot of stuff and why they did not give a fuck about most of the customers who were growing to supply themself.

    Amount and legitimate reason.
  • Darth BeaverDarth Beaver Meine Ehre heißt Treue
    edited August 2011
    [h=3]15 U.S.C. §2601 et seq. (1976)[/h]
    To amend the Toxic Substances Control Act to prohibit the use, production,
    sale, importation, or exportation of the poison sodium fluoroacetate
    (known as ‘‘Compound 1080’’) and to prohibit the use of sodium cyanide
    for predator control.
    It seems most people don't understand what the U.S. Government means when is says control and apparently the OP does not know the meaning of the word and. I certainly hope you all know what they mean by sale.
  • dr rockerdr rocker Regular
    edited August 2011
    [h=3]15 U.S.C. §2601 et seq. (1976)[/h]

    It seems most people don't understand what the U.S. Government means when is says control and apparently the OP does not know the meaning of the word and. I certainly hope you all know what they mean by sale.

    Let me help you with some underslining there skippy.

    As it is legislation, it is prescribe that:
    To amend the Toxic Substances Control Act to prohibit the use, production,
    sale, importation, or exportation of the poison sodium fluoroacetate
    (known as ‘‘Compound 1080’’)
    and to prohibit the use of sodium cyanide
    for predator control
    .

    I can see how you misinterpret this here, But the later is not subject to the former in anyway, it is mearly a tag along piece of legislation that was grouped in as it pertained to poinsoness chemicals.

    Ideally, they should have been seperated as clauses with i and ii or whatever number they would have been if it had been draughted correctly, but as that legislation stands, it in no way prohibits a private citizen to hold it for purposes of legal use.

    The caveat is legally unenforcable for proscution for contradictions to the conditions in the first rule, otherwise both chemicals should have been mentioned before any conditions that apply to them, rather than one saying chemical number one was illegal for manufacture, posetion, sale, etc, but the next rule...

    Ah fuck it, you have to be trolling not to understand it...
  • thewandererthewanderer Regular
    edited August 2011
    Legal or not, buying that stuff will raise a BIG red flag. With a bit of chemistry knowledge and more than a bit of safety procedure, NaCN can be made without too much difficulty.
  • Darth BeaverDarth Beaver Meine Ehre heißt Treue
    edited August 2011
    dr rocker wrote: »
    Let me help you with some underslining there skippy.

    As it is legislation, it is prescribe that:



    I can see how you misinterpret this here, But the later is not subject to the former in anyway, it is mearly a tag along piece of legislation that was grouped in as it pertained to poinsoness chemicals.

    Ideally, they should have been seperated as clauses with i and ii or whatever number they would have been if it had been draughted correctly, but as that legislation stands, it in no way prohibits a private citizen to hold it for purposes of legal use.

    The caveat is legally unenforcable for proscution for contradictions to the conditions in the first rule, otherwise both chemicals should have been mentioned before any conditions that apply to them, rather than one saying chemical number one was illegal for manufacture, posetion, sale, etc, but the next rule...

    Ah fuck it, you have to be trolling not to understand it...

    Anything you say there poindexter, go buy some without the proper documentation, walk into an FBI office, announce you have it in your possession and that you purchased it without license or permit, and let us know how that turns out when you get out of the joint.
  • edited August 2011
    In Britain certain shops will sell KCN to you over the counter, assuming your reasons for wanting to purchase it are plausible and you aren't a dubious looking S.O.B.
    buddha wrote: »
    Better throw away your table salt before the FBI shows up, since it contains cyanide, (as an anti caking agent)

    Different compound, different properties.
  • RemadERemadE Global Moderator
    edited August 2011
    In Britain certain shops will sell KCN to you over the counter, assuming your reasons for wanting to purchase it are plausible and you aren't a dubious looking S.O.B.

    This is true. Won't say where, but I managed to get a small quantity, then chucked it after shitting a brick and thinking I was going to be a dead 16 year old with a fake ID.
Sign In or Register to comment.